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	<title>Comments on: Bible-Based Morality? The Second Commandment</title>
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	<link>http://www.anatheist.net/2009/01/bible-based-morality-the-second-commandment/</link>
	<description>Atheism &#38; Religious Skepticism</description>
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		<title>By: Ray_Light</title>
		<link>http://www.anatheist.net/2009/01/bible-based-morality-the-second-commandment/comment-page-1/#comment-8226</link>
		<dc:creator>Ray_Light</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Aug 2009 02:26:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.anatheist.net/?p=1275#comment-8226</guid>
		<description>The Israelites were worshiping idols and giving gifts to God at the same time. They did not believe in God as the one true God; instead they worshiped Him along with the other gods of the land. The same type of thing happens today. Far too many talk of God and how He is but when they are done visiting their church and &#8220;worshiping&#8221; God they go right back to their idols of money, power, pleasure, etc. They don&#8217;t want to miss out on any possible benefits. 
 
God desires all of our love and all of our devotion but if we choose not to give it to Him than we should not expect Him to protect us from all of our bad decisions. You cannot keep God pleased with you and pursue the &#8220;pleasures of sin&#8221; at the same time. It was their choice to follow Him or not, and they chose not to; therefore they abandoned their connection to His wisdom and protection. Naturally, sad circumstances and consequences followed their bad decisions, but God is not to blame for them exercising their own free will. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Israelites were worshiping idols and giving gifts to God at the same time. They did not believe in God as the one true God; instead they worshiped Him along with the other gods of the land. The same type of thing happens today. Far too many talk of God and how He is but when they are done visiting their church and &ldquo;worshiping&rdquo; God they go right back to their idols of money, power, pleasure, etc. They don&rsquo;t want to miss out on any possible benefits. </p>
<p>God desires all of our love and all of our devotion but if we choose not to give it to Him than we should not expect Him to protect us from all of our bad decisions. You cannot keep God pleased with you and pursue the &ldquo;pleasures of sin&rdquo; at the same time. It was their choice to follow Him or not, and they chose not to; therefore they abandoned their connection to His wisdom and protection. Naturally, sad circumstances and consequences followed their bad decisions, but God is not to blame for them exercising their own free will.</p>
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		<title>By: Ray_Light</title>
		<link>http://www.anatheist.net/2009/01/bible-based-morality-the-second-commandment/comment-page-1/#comment-8225</link>
		<dc:creator>Ray_Light</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Aug 2009 02:25:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.anatheist.net/?p=1275#comment-8225</guid>
		<description>I apologize, you write on here much more than I do so it&#8217;s only natural that you would not remember. This is a continuation of a conversation we started in the post on the first Commandment. Let me refresh your memory&#8230; 
 
askegg: 
&quot;Deuteronomy 9:20 says the Lord was angry enough with Aaron to destroy him&quot;  
 
Your god is a spoilt little child. When things don&#039;t work out the way he wants he breaks his toys and has a hissy fit. A deity who would destroy people for displeasing him is neither tolerant, loving, compassionate, nor worthy of worship.  
 
Ray_Light: 
When it is seen that Aaron was spared, God is unjust for being so forgiving. When it is shown that Aaron came very close to death, God is too harsh for being ready to destroy him. The point of these arguments does not seem to be about just or unjust, loving or unloving, but about choosing a contrary position to God on every account, no matter the case.  
  
James Tracy: 
The point of those arguments seems to be to show how God&#039;s behavior is presented as being at the very least inconsistent. It is not being forgiving of Aaron that is unjust, rather, it is the way that Aaron is treated specially compared to the many thousands of others that participated in the same activity.  
  
Ray_Light:  
There is no inconsistency when you take the whole story into context. Some are forgiven and some are not; the catch is that you have to ask for it. You seem to think that all were punished and only Aaron was spared. All who were repentant were forgiven. This &#8220;special treatment&#8221; is available to all who ask for it. To say that it is unfair to forgive those who show such penitence and humiliation because it is &#8220;special treatment&#8221; is to say either 1) all should be forgiven unconditionally, or 2) no one should ever be forgiven; this way no one gets &quot;special treatment.&quot; </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I apologize, you write on here much more than I do so it&rsquo;s only natural that you would not remember. This is a continuation of a conversation we started in the post on the first Commandment. Let me refresh your memory&hellip; </p>
<p>askegg:<br />
&quot;<a href="http://bible.oremus.org/?passage=Deuteronomy+9%3A20&amp;vnum=yes&amp;version=nrsv" class="bibleref" title="NRSV Deuteronomy 9:20">Deuteronomy 9:20</a><a href="http://bible.oremus.org/?passage=Deuteronomy+9%3A20&amp;vnum=yes&amp;version=nrsv" class="scripturizer_newwindow" title="Open this passage in a new browser window" target="_new"><img src="http://www.anatheist.net/wp-content/plugins/the-holy-scripturizer/new-window.gif" alt="Open Link in New Window" /></a> says the Lord was angry enough with Aaron to destroy him&quot;  </p>
<p>Your god is a spoilt little child. When things don&#039;t work out the way he wants he breaks his toys and has a hissy fit. A deity who would destroy people for displeasing him is neither tolerant, loving, compassionate, nor worthy of worship.  </p>
<p>Ray_Light:<br />
When it is seen that Aaron was spared, God is unjust for being so forgiving. When it is shown that Aaron came very close to death, God is too harsh for being ready to destroy him. The point of these arguments does not seem to be about just or unjust, loving or unloving, but about choosing a contrary position to God on every account, no matter the case.  </p>
<p>James Tracy:<br />
The point of those arguments seems to be to show how God&#039;s behavior is presented as being at the very least inconsistent. It is not being forgiving of Aaron that is unjust, rather, it is the way that Aaron is treated specially compared to the many thousands of others that participated in the same activity.  </p>
<p>Ray_Light:<br />
There is no inconsistency when you take the whole story into context. Some are forgiven and some are not; the catch is that you have to ask for it. You seem to think that all were punished and only Aaron was spared. All who were repentant were forgiven. This &ldquo;special treatment&rdquo; is available to all who ask for it. To say that it is unfair to forgive those who show such penitence and humiliation because it is &ldquo;special treatment&rdquo; is to say either 1) all should be forgiven unconditionally, or 2) no one should ever be forgiven; this way no one gets &quot;special treatment.&quot;</p>
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		<title>By: James Tracy</title>
		<link>http://www.anatheist.net/2009/01/bible-based-morality-the-second-commandment/comment-page-1/#comment-8122</link>
		<dc:creator>James Tracy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Aug 2009 02:07:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.anatheist.net/?p=1275#comment-8122</guid>
		<description>Not sure where you are getting this idea from but it is certainly not about choosing a contrary position to God on every account - it is looking at the stories and honestly asking yourself if this is the most reasonable course of action for a deity to make. In this case, God is allowing children to be sacrificed to teach these people a lesson rather than simply clearing up the misunderstanding some other way. Is that what you would do? </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Not sure where you are getting this idea from but it is certainly not about choosing a contrary position to God on every account &#8211; it is looking at the stories and honestly asking yourself if this is the most reasonable course of action for a deity to make. In this case, God is allowing children to be sacrificed to teach these people a lesson rather than simply clearing up the misunderstanding some other way. Is that what you would do?</p>
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		<title>By: Ray_Light</title>
		<link>http://www.anatheist.net/2009/01/bible-based-morality-the-second-commandment/comment-page-1/#comment-8100</link>
		<dc:creator>Ray_Light</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Aug 2009 00:20:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.anatheist.net/?p=1275#comment-8100</guid>
		<description>Here again is that strange contradiction.. When examples of how God prevents further sin from happening it is said that He is a “spoilt brat” and a “tyrant,” or even that he is somehow interfering with free will. Yet when an example is shown of God allowing people to sin as they so freely choose, it is claimed that He is too passive? I say again, “the point of these arguments does not seem to be about just or unjust, loving or unloving, but about choosing a contrary position to God on every account, no matter the case.” </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here again is that strange contradiction.. When examples of how God prevents further sin from happening it is said that He is a “spoilt brat” and a “tyrant,” or even that he is somehow interfering with free will. Yet when an example is shown of God allowing people to sin as they so freely choose, it is claimed that He is too passive? I say again, “the point of these arguments does not seem to be about just or unjust, loving or unloving, but about choosing a contrary position to God on every account, no matter the case.”</p>
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		<title>By: Ray_Light</title>
		<link>http://www.anatheist.net/2009/01/bible-based-morality-the-second-commandment/comment-page-1/#comment-8028</link>
		<dc:creator>Ray_Light</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 31 Jul 2009 21:12:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.anatheist.net/?p=1275#comment-8028</guid>
		<description>&#8220;Right. That&#039;s the Levirate marriage, which Onan failed to comply with. Hardly a &#039;crime&#039; that would justify death in my opinion. How many others have been struck down for failing to comply? Or is Onan the sole unlucky example?&#8221; 
 
Your comment from earlier shows that you thought Onan was killed because he did not give his dead brother&#8217;s wife children (&#8220;Levirate marriage&#8221;). This showed you did not know/understand the situation. There is nothing wrong with that, most everyone would not know at first glance; I didn&#8217;t. 
You asked &#8220;How many others have been struck down for failing to comply,&#8221; so I was attempting to show you that death was not the penalty for &#8220;failing to comply.&#8221; Onan could have done his duty or declined it, either way he would have been fine; but as you said, &#8220;instead he did something worse.&#8221; </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&ldquo;Right. That&#039;s the Levirate marriage, which Onan failed to comply with. Hardly a &#039;crime&#039; that would justify death in my opinion. How many others have been struck down for failing to comply? Or is Onan the sole unlucky example?&rdquo; </p>
<p>Your comment from earlier shows that you thought Onan was killed because he did not give his dead brother&rsquo;s wife children (&ldquo;Levirate marriage&rdquo;). This showed you did not know/understand the situation. There is nothing wrong with that, most everyone would not know at first glance; I didn&rsquo;t.<br />
You asked &ldquo;How many others have been struck down for failing to comply,&rdquo; so I was attempting to show you that death was not the penalty for &ldquo;failing to comply.&rdquo; Onan could have done his duty or declined it, either way he would have been fine; but as you said, &ldquo;instead he did something worse.&rdquo;</p>
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		<title>By: Ray_Light</title>
		<link>http://www.anatheist.net/2009/01/bible-based-morality-the-second-commandment/comment-page-1/#comment-6554</link>
		<dc:creator>Ray_Light</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 31 Jul 2009 10:53:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.anatheist.net/?p=1275#comment-6554</guid>
		<description>I apologize if you had any trouble. I did cover that a bit during the First Commandment and decided against repetition as much as possible. Also, I fully expected questions and discussions as this is a debate site and I am offering an opposing viewpoint on a subject that everyone on here is clearly passionate about. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I apologize if you had any trouble. I did cover that a bit during the First Commandment and decided against repetition as much as possible. Also, I fully expected questions and discussions as this is a debate site and I am offering an opposing viewpoint on a subject that everyone on here is clearly passionate about.</p>
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		<title>By: Ray_Light</title>
		<link>http://www.anatheist.net/2009/01/bible-based-morality-the-second-commandment/comment-page-1/#comment-7006</link>
		<dc:creator>Ray_Light</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 31 Jul 2009 10:32:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.anatheist.net/?p=1275#comment-7006</guid>
		<description>Again you insist that meaning is fabricated because it is not instantly clear to you. How do similarities and congruence between passages and books in the Bible show fabrication? If they did not coincide your would claim contradiction, but since they do you claim ambiguity? Because something is not instantly understandable in no way indicates meaning must be &#8220;assigned,&#8221; but how can something be understood without knowing the context and the meaning of expressions used thousands of years ago? Taking one phrase out of any type of writing can lead to misunderstandings on many levels; so how do you find out what they are really talking about? What they are really saying? You read the rest to get context and understanding.  
  
&#8220;Once the meaning of the expression is known&#8221; does not mean meaning has to be &#8220;assigned,&#8221; but &#8220;known&#8221; and &#8220;understood.&#8221; How can anything be understood, even today, if words and expressions are not understood? Imagine how difficult it would be to understand a sentence with the phrase &#8220;behind the eightball&#8221; or &#8220;pigeonholed&#8221; if you do not understand the expression. Also, words and expressions often change over time, and the fact that they were originally in Hebrew can make it a bit tougher to grasp at first glance. Reading a book from only a few decades ago can lead to some real confusion if you do not understand that &#8220;gay&#8221; and &#8220;queer&#8221; were used much differently than they are today. Just because someone does not know what words and expressions mean does not mean the writing is flawed, but simply that a little study is necessary. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Again you insist that meaning is fabricated because it is not instantly clear to you. How do similarities and congruence between passages and books in the Bible show fabrication? If they did not coincide your would claim contradiction, but since they do you claim ambiguity? Because something is not instantly understandable in no way indicates meaning must be &ldquo;assigned,&rdquo; but how can something be understood without knowing the context and the meaning of expressions used thousands of years ago? Taking one phrase out of any type of writing can lead to misunderstandings on many levels; so how do you find out what they are really talking about? What they are really saying? You read the rest to get context and understanding.  </p>
<p>&ldquo;Once the meaning of the expression is known&rdquo; does not mean meaning has to be &ldquo;assigned,&rdquo; but &ldquo;known&rdquo; and &ldquo;understood.&rdquo; How can anything be understood, even today, if words and expressions are not understood? Imagine how difficult it would be to understand a sentence with the phrase &ldquo;behind the eightball&rdquo; or &ldquo;pigeonholed&rdquo; if you do not understand the expression. Also, words and expressions often change over time, and the fact that they were originally in Hebrew can make it a bit tougher to grasp at first glance. Reading a book from only a few decades ago can lead to some real confusion if you do not understand that &ldquo;gay&rdquo; and &ldquo;queer&rdquo; were used much differently than they are today. Just because someone does not know what words and expressions mean does not mean the writing is flawed, but simply that a little study is necessary.</p>
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		<title>By: Ray_Light</title>
		<link>http://www.anatheist.net/2009/01/bible-based-morality-the-second-commandment/comment-page-1/#comment-5553</link>
		<dc:creator>Ray_Light</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 31 Jul 2009 10:23:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.anatheist.net/?p=1275#comment-5553</guid>
		<description>When I say it is not a Biblical teaching that does not mean some Bible believers do not think this way, it simply means that it is not what the Bible teaches. It would be foolish to base the meaning of the Bible on what others say the meaning is. The final conclusion of the numerous lessons in the Bible must ultimately come from the reader himself, not what he is told it says. This is how many quickly &#8220;loose faith&#8221; when they are confronted with difficult questions. And, as stated repeatedly, the Bible must be taken as a whole; in only taking a small sample of something anything can be misinterpreted, misunderstood, and misconstrued. Reading everything, gathering and taking all information into account is the only way any semblance of true meaning can be determined. The study of science and the study of the Bible are very similar in this manner.  
In Matthew 12:40-42, at the end of the world angels will separate the evil from the good. The wailing/weeping indicates sorrow and remorse and the gnashing of teeth shows pain and anxiety. This in now way indicates an eternal punishment; continue reading in Matthew. &#8220;Then they will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous to life eternal.&#8221; (Matthew 25:46). Note that is says &#8220;everlasting punishment&#8221; not &#8220;everlasting punishing.&#8221; It is a single punishment whose effect lasts forever. The everlasting (or eternal) punishment for sin is &#8220;eternal separation&#8221; from God. The everlasting reward is just the opposite, &#8220;eternal life&#8221; with God.  
Sodom and Gomorrah are examples of everlasting punishment and eternal fire (Jude 7). They were punished with &#8220;eternal fire&#8221; but they are not still burning today; they do however, still lie in ruins &#8211; or ashes (2 Peter 2:6) - hence, eternal punishment. It is not the issuance of the punishment that is eternal, it is the effect of the punishment.  
&#8220;A little while, and the wicked will be no more; though you look for them, they will not be found.&#8221; (Psalm 37:10). &#8220;But the wicked will perish&#8230;they will vanish &#8211; vanish like smoke.&#8221; (Psalm 37:20). The wicked shall be as they had not been (Obadiah 16). They will be no more; they will perish and consume away. The wicked will not be found (Psalm 37:36).  
Sinners will ultimately be burned up or turned to ashes. &#8220;For behold, the day cometh, that shall burn like a furnace. All the arrogant, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up&#8230;&#8221; (Malachi 4:1). Isaiah speaks of this fire and stubble too. &#8220;Surely they are like stubble; the fire will burn them up. They cannot even save themselves from the power of the flame. Here are no coals to warm anyone; here is no fire to sit by.&#8221; (Isaiah 47:14). The fire will burn itself out and there will not even be a coal to warm at. &#8220;And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of you feet in the day that I shall do this, saith the Lord of hosts.&#8221; (Malachi 4:3).  
On top of translation, deep symbolic imagery can make the book of Revelation quite a difficult read. In Revelation 14:10-11 (&amp; 20:10), where the wicked are punished forever, more evidence is provided against &#8220;eternal punishment&#8221; when the meaning of the words is known. The true meaning of those words here are not an endless existence, but literally translated &#8220;until the end of the age&#8221;, or the end of one&#8217;s lifetime. Other examples of this are in Exodus 21:6, which says a slave will serve his master &#8220;forever&#8221;, and 1 Samuel 1:22,28 show Hannah presenting Samuel before the Lord &#8220;forever.&#8221; It is like saying &#8220;for the rest of his life&#8221; or &#8220;until he dies.&#8221; </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>When I say it is not a Biblical teaching that does not mean some Bible believers do not think this way, it simply means that it is not what the Bible teaches. It would be foolish to base the meaning of the Bible on what others say the meaning is. The final conclusion of the numerous lessons in the Bible must ultimately come from the reader himself, not what he is told it says. This is how many quickly &ldquo;loose faith&rdquo; when they are confronted with difficult questions. And, as stated repeatedly, the Bible must be taken as a whole; in only taking a small sample of something anything can be misinterpreted, misunderstood, and misconstrued. Reading everything, gathering and taking all information into account is the only way any semblance of true meaning can be determined. The study of science and the study of the Bible are very similar in this manner.<br />
In <a href="http://bible.oremus.org/?passage=Matthew+12%3A40-42&amp;vnum=yes&amp;version=nrsv" class="bibleref" title="NRSV Matthew 12:40-42">Matthew 12:40-42</a><a href="http://bible.oremus.org/?passage=Matthew+12%3A40-42&amp;vnum=yes&amp;version=nrsv" class="scripturizer_newwindow" title="Open this passage in a new browser window" target="_new"><img src="http://www.anatheist.net/wp-content/plugins/the-holy-scripturizer/new-window.gif" alt="Open Link in New Window" /></a>, at the end of the world angels will separate the evil from the good. The wailing/weeping indicates sorrow and remorse and the gnashing of teeth shows pain and anxiety. This in now way indicates an eternal punishment; continue reading in Matthew. &ldquo;Then they will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous to life eternal.&rdquo; (<a href="http://bible.oremus.org/?passage=Matthew+25%3A46&amp;vnum=yes&amp;version=nrsv" class="bibleref" title="NRSV Matthew 25:46">Matthew 25:46</a><a href="http://bible.oremus.org/?passage=Matthew+25%3A46&amp;vnum=yes&amp;version=nrsv" class="scripturizer_newwindow" title="Open this passage in a new browser window" target="_new"><img src="http://www.anatheist.net/wp-content/plugins/the-holy-scripturizer/new-window.gif" alt="Open Link in New Window" /></a>). Note that is says &ldquo;everlasting punishment&rdquo; not &ldquo;everlasting punishing.&rdquo; It is a single punishment whose effect lasts forever. The everlasting (or eternal) punishment for sin is &ldquo;eternal separation&rdquo; from God. The everlasting reward is just the opposite, &ldquo;eternal life&rdquo; with God.<br />
Sodom and Gomorrah are examples of everlasting punishment and eternal fire (<a href="http://bible.oremus.org/?passage=Jude+7&amp;vnum=yes&amp;version=nrsv" class="bibleref" title="NRSV Jude 7">Jude 7</a><a href="http://bible.oremus.org/?passage=Jude+7&amp;vnum=yes&amp;version=nrsv" class="scripturizer_newwindow" title="Open this passage in a new browser window" target="_new"><img src="http://www.anatheist.net/wp-content/plugins/the-holy-scripturizer/new-window.gif" alt="Open Link in New Window" /></a>). They were punished with &ldquo;eternal fire&rdquo; but they are not still burning today; they do however, still lie in ruins &ndash; or ashes (<a href="http://bible.oremus.org/?passage=2+Peter+2%3A6&amp;vnum=yes&amp;version=nrsv" class="bibleref" title="NRSV 2Peter 2:6">2 Peter 2:6</a><a href="http://bible.oremus.org/?passage=2+Peter+2%3A6&amp;vnum=yes&amp;version=nrsv" class="scripturizer_newwindow" title="Open this passage in a new browser window" target="_new"><img src="http://www.anatheist.net/wp-content/plugins/the-holy-scripturizer/new-window.gif" alt="Open Link in New Window" /></a>) &#8211; hence, eternal punishment. It is not the issuance of the punishment that is eternal, it is the effect of the punishment.<br />
&ldquo;A little while, and the wicked will be no more; though you look for them, they will not be found.&rdquo; (<a href="http://bible.oremus.org/?passage=Psalm+37%3A10&amp;vnum=yes&amp;version=nrsv" class="bibleref" title="NRSV Psalm 37:10">Psalm 37:10</a><a href="http://bible.oremus.org/?passage=Psalm+37%3A10&amp;vnum=yes&amp;version=nrsv" class="scripturizer_newwindow" title="Open this passage in a new browser window" target="_new"><img src="http://www.anatheist.net/wp-content/plugins/the-holy-scripturizer/new-window.gif" alt="Open Link in New Window" /></a>). &ldquo;But the wicked will perish&hellip;they will vanish &ndash; vanish like smoke.&rdquo; (<a href="http://bible.oremus.org/?passage=Psalm+37%3A20&amp;vnum=yes&amp;version=nrsv" class="bibleref" title="NRSV Psalm 37:20">Psalm 37:20</a><a href="http://bible.oremus.org/?passage=Psalm+37%3A20&amp;vnum=yes&amp;version=nrsv" class="scripturizer_newwindow" title="Open this passage in a new browser window" target="_new"><img src="http://www.anatheist.net/wp-content/plugins/the-holy-scripturizer/new-window.gif" alt="Open Link in New Window" /></a>). The wicked shall be as they had not been (<a href="http://bible.oremus.org/?passage=Obadiah+16&amp;vnum=yes&amp;version=nrsv" class="bibleref" title="NRSV Obadiah 16">Obadiah 16</a><a href="http://bible.oremus.org/?passage=Obadiah+16&amp;vnum=yes&amp;version=nrsv" class="scripturizer_newwindow" title="Open this passage in a new browser window" target="_new"><img src="http://www.anatheist.net/wp-content/plugins/the-holy-scripturizer/new-window.gif" alt="Open Link in New Window" /></a>). They will be no more; they will perish and consume away. The wicked will not be found (<a href="http://bible.oremus.org/?passage=Psalm+37%3A36&amp;vnum=yes&amp;version=nrsv" class="bibleref" title="NRSV Psalm 37:36">Psalm 37:36</a><a href="http://bible.oremus.org/?passage=Psalm+37%3A36&amp;vnum=yes&amp;version=nrsv" class="scripturizer_newwindow" title="Open this passage in a new browser window" target="_new"><img src="http://www.anatheist.net/wp-content/plugins/the-holy-scripturizer/new-window.gif" alt="Open Link in New Window" /></a>).<br />
Sinners will ultimately be burned up or turned to ashes. &ldquo;For behold, the day cometh, that shall burn like a furnace. All the arrogant, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up&hellip;&rdquo; (<a href="http://bible.oremus.org/?passage=Malachi+4%3A1&amp;vnum=yes&amp;version=nrsv" class="bibleref" title="NRSV Malachi 4:1">Malachi 4:1</a><a href="http://bible.oremus.org/?passage=Malachi+4%3A1&amp;vnum=yes&amp;version=nrsv" class="scripturizer_newwindow" title="Open this passage in a new browser window" target="_new"><img src="http://www.anatheist.net/wp-content/plugins/the-holy-scripturizer/new-window.gif" alt="Open Link in New Window" /></a>). Isaiah speaks of this fire and stubble too. &ldquo;Surely they are like stubble; the fire will burn them up. They cannot even save themselves from the power of the flame. Here are no coals to warm anyone; here is no fire to sit by.&rdquo; (<a href="http://bible.oremus.org/?passage=Isaiah+47%3A14&amp;vnum=yes&amp;version=nrsv" class="bibleref" title="NRSV Isaiah 47:14">Isaiah 47:14</a><a href="http://bible.oremus.org/?passage=Isaiah+47%3A14&amp;vnum=yes&amp;version=nrsv" class="scripturizer_newwindow" title="Open this passage in a new browser window" target="_new"><img src="http://www.anatheist.net/wp-content/plugins/the-holy-scripturizer/new-window.gif" alt="Open Link in New Window" /></a>). The fire will burn itself out and there will not even be a coal to warm at. &ldquo;And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of you feet in the day that I shall do this, saith the Lord of hosts.&rdquo; (<a href="http://bible.oremus.org/?passage=Malachi+4%3A3&amp;vnum=yes&amp;version=nrsv" class="bibleref" title="NRSV Malachi 4:3">Malachi 4:3</a><a href="http://bible.oremus.org/?passage=Malachi+4%3A3&amp;vnum=yes&amp;version=nrsv" class="scripturizer_newwindow" title="Open this passage in a new browser window" target="_new"><img src="http://www.anatheist.net/wp-content/plugins/the-holy-scripturizer/new-window.gif" alt="Open Link in New Window" /></a>).<br />
On top of translation, deep symbolic imagery can make the book of Revelation quite a difficult read. In <a href="http://bible.oremus.org/?passage=Revelation+14%3A10-11&amp;vnum=yes&amp;version=nrsv" class="bibleref" title="NRSV Revelation 14:10-11">Revelation 14:10-11</a><a href="http://bible.oremus.org/?passage=Revelation+14%3A10-11&amp;vnum=yes&amp;version=nrsv" class="scripturizer_newwindow" title="Open this passage in a new browser window" target="_new"><img src="http://www.anatheist.net/wp-content/plugins/the-holy-scripturizer/new-window.gif" alt="Open Link in New Window" /></a> (&amp; 20:10), where the wicked are punished forever, more evidence is provided against &ldquo;eternal punishment&rdquo; when the meaning of the words is known. The true meaning of those words here are not an endless existence, but literally translated &ldquo;until the end of the age&rdquo;, or the end of one&rsquo;s lifetime. Other examples of this are in <a href="http://bible.oremus.org/?passage=Exodus+21%3A6&amp;vnum=yes&amp;version=nrsv" class="bibleref" title="NRSV Exodus 21:6">Exodus 21:6</a><a href="http://bible.oremus.org/?passage=Exodus+21%3A6&amp;vnum=yes&amp;version=nrsv" class="scripturizer_newwindow" title="Open this passage in a new browser window" target="_new"><img src="http://www.anatheist.net/wp-content/plugins/the-holy-scripturizer/new-window.gif" alt="Open Link in New Window" /></a>, which says a slave will serve his master &ldquo;forever&rdquo;, and <a href="http://bible.oremus.org/?passage=1+Samuel+1%3A22%2C28&amp;vnum=yes&amp;version=nrsv" class="bibleref" title="NRSV 1Samuel 1:22,28">1 Samuel 1:22,28</a><a href="http://bible.oremus.org/?passage=1+Samuel+1%3A22%2C28&amp;vnum=yes&amp;version=nrsv" class="scripturizer_newwindow" title="Open this passage in a new browser window" target="_new"><img src="http://www.anatheist.net/wp-content/plugins/the-holy-scripturizer/new-window.gif" alt="Open Link in New Window" /></a> show Hannah presenting Samuel before the Lord &ldquo;forever.&rdquo; It is like saying &ldquo;for the rest of his life&rdquo; or &ldquo;until he dies.&rdquo;</p>
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		<title>By: James Tracy</title>
		<link>http://www.anatheist.net/2009/01/bible-based-morality-the-second-commandment/comment-page-1/#comment-8013</link>
		<dc:creator>James Tracy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 31 Jul 2009 05:12:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.anatheist.net/?p=1275#comment-8013</guid>
		<description>So he was killed for both. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So he was killed for both.</p>
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		<title>By: Ray_Light</title>
		<link>http://www.anatheist.net/2009/01/bible-based-morality-the-second-commandment/comment-page-1/#comment-8011</link>
		<dc:creator>Ray_Light</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 31 Jul 2009 03:49:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.anatheist.net/?p=1275#comment-8011</guid>
		<description>This gets us into semantics. He did not &#8220;disobey&#8221; in that he did not &#8220;refuse&#8221; to obey; he neither accepted nor declined his duty. However, given the fact that he did &#8220;fail&#8221; to obey his duty I can see how you would say that. But this is a small matter, the greater point is that Onan was not killed &#8220;for the high crime of spilling his seed upon the ground&#8221; as this post states, nor was he killed simply because he &#8220;failed to comply&#8221; with his duty as you suggested. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This gets us into semantics. He did not &ldquo;disobey&rdquo; in that he did not &ldquo;refuse&rdquo; to obey; he neither accepted nor declined his duty. However, given the fact that he did &ldquo;fail&rdquo; to obey his duty I can see how you would say that. But this is a small matter, the greater point is that Onan was not killed &ldquo;for the high crime of spilling his seed upon the ground&rdquo; as this post states, nor was he killed simply because he &ldquo;failed to comply&rdquo; with his duty as you suggested.</p>
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