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	<title>Comments on: The Land of Morality</title>
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	<link>http://www.anatheist.net/2009/01/the-land-of-morality/</link>
	<description>Atheism &#38; Religious Skepticism</description>
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		<title>By: anti_supernaturalist</title>
		<link>http://www.anatheist.net/2009/01/the-land-of-morality/comment-page-1/#comment-9554</link>
		<dc:creator>anti_supernaturalist</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Sep 2009 02:44:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.anatheist.net/?p=1260#comment-9554</guid>
		<description>&lt;b&gt;** there is no &quot;new testament&quot; ethic&lt;/b&gt; 
 
You have only to step outside monotheistic thought to understand how much western atheism and theism alike operate on the narrowest bandwidth of knowledge. 
 
If your model of religion is based on the big-3 near eastern monster-theisms, you won&#8217;t even understand non-theistic philosophical theories and practices so vigorously quashed by the hope-faith-charity crowd for the last 2,000 years: 
 
1. Xian (Jesus&#8217; or Pauline) &#8220;ethics&#8221; is not ethical at all. 
2. Non-western example: the ethic of Confucius is superior. 
3. There is no inherent relationship between religion and morals. 
4. all god proxies are frauds 
 
Jesus&#8217; ethic is irrational, otherworldly, and impractical. It promises much, and delivers nothing. Jesus&#8217; &#8220;interim ethic&#8221; couldn&#8217;t outlast one generation of true believers. After all, the world was about to end. &quot;Behold the lilies of the field . . . . &quot; (Search term: interim ethic) 
 
The fideistic irrationality of Paul of Tarsus with its anti-intellectualism, misogyny, and revenge seeking has poisoned the West for 2,000 years. After all, the world was about to end and Christ would soon return to elevate believers and damn everyone else &#8212; but he didn&#8217;t show. (Read 1Cor1:20-30 NIV. See N. Cohn. Cosmos, Chaos, and the World to Come. 2nd ed Yale) 
 
Chinese culture was far luckier. Based on that very rational, this worldly, and practical book, The Analects [Conversations], attributed to Confucius. Five hundred years before a fictional Jesus and hysterical Paul, Confucius was eons ahead of contemporary xian (jewish/islamist) thinking: 
 
6:20 Fan Ch&#8217;ih asked what constituted wisdom. The Master said, &#8220;To give one&#8217;s self earnestly to the duties due to men, and, while respecting spiritual beings, to keep aloof from them, may be called wisdom.&#8221; 
 
Get the point? No relationship between religion&#039;s &#8220;spiritual beings&#8221; and ethics, &#8220;the duties due to men.&#8221; The latter cannot be understood in terms of the former. (For the western parallel in Greek religion, see ER Dodds. The Greeks and the Irrational. Cal Pr. esp pp. 31-32.) 
 
What follows? &quot;God [the Peeping Tom] is dead.&quot; There are no surrogate for gods: no Pope, prelate, priest, pastor, rabbi, imam can dictate human behavior &#8212; or force submission to some state-supported officer of &#8220;God&#8221;. (State support of religion in the US comes through non-profit federal tax status and 1st amendment busting &#8220;faith-based&#8221; initiatives.) But, on to the real foundations of planet-wide social norms: 
 
15:23 Tsze-kung asked, saying, &#8220;Is there one word which may serve as a rule of practice for all one&#8217;s life?&#8221; The Master said, &#8220;Is not &#8216;reciprocity&#8217; such a word? What you do not want done to yourself, do not do to others.&#8221; [trans. S.R. McIntyre 2003] 
 
All religions are outdated cultural artifacts. All ethics are irreducibly social. An ethic is a cultural artifact with certain necessary conditions -- for example, prohibition of &lt;i&gt;murder&lt;/i&gt;. 
 
Deliberate killing (murder) of an in-group member (a person) cannot be tolerated (generalized); otherwise, no culture could exist. 
 
It is truly comforting to trace my lineage back to a common chimp-human ancestor and not to some miserable first xian. Today&#039;s chimps do not demonstrate any of the non-rational behaviors humans indulge in under the name of &quot;religion.&quot;  
 
They do not pray (though they beg); they do not have rituals (though they play); they do not &quot;commit adultery&quot; (but do covet their neighbors&#039; mates); they do not lie (though they dissemble during dangerous sexual liaisons). 
 
the anti-supernaturalist </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><b>** there is no &quot;new testament&quot; ethic</b> </p>
<p>You have only to step outside monotheistic thought to understand how much western atheism and theism alike operate on the narrowest bandwidth of knowledge. </p>
<p>If your model of religion is based on the big-3 near eastern monster-theisms, you won&rsquo;t even understand non-theistic philosophical theories and practices so vigorously quashed by the hope-faith-charity crowd for the last 2,000 years: </p>
<p>1. Xian (Jesus&rsquo; or Pauline) &ldquo;ethics&rdquo; is not ethical at all.<br />
2. Non-western example: the ethic of Confucius is superior.<br />
3. There is no inherent relationship between religion and morals.<br />
4. all god proxies are frauds </p>
<p>Jesus&rsquo; ethic is irrational, otherworldly, and impractical. It promises much, and delivers nothing. Jesus&rsquo; &ldquo;interim ethic&rdquo; couldn&rsquo;t outlast one generation of true believers. After all, the world was about to end. &quot;Behold the lilies of the field . . . . &quot; (Search term: interim ethic) </p>
<p>The fideistic irrationality of Paul of Tarsus with its anti-intellectualism, misogyny, and revenge seeking has poisoned the West for 2,000 years. After all, the world was about to end and Christ would soon return to elevate believers and damn everyone else &mdash; but he didn&rsquo;t show. (Read 1Cor1:20-30 NIV. See N. Cohn. Cosmos, Chaos, and the World to Come. 2nd ed Yale) </p>
<p>Chinese culture was far luckier. Based on that very rational, this worldly, and practical book, The Analects [Conversations], attributed to Confucius. Five hundred years before a fictional Jesus and hysterical Paul, Confucius was eons ahead of contemporary xian (jewish/islamist) thinking: </p>
<p>6:20 Fan Ch&rsquo;ih asked what constituted wisdom. The Master said, &ldquo;To give one&rsquo;s self earnestly to the duties due to men, and, while respecting spiritual beings, to keep aloof from them, may be called wisdom.&rdquo; </p>
<p>Get the point? No relationship between religion&#039;s &ldquo;spiritual beings&rdquo; and ethics, &ldquo;the duties due to men.&rdquo; The latter cannot be understood in terms of the former. (For the western parallel in Greek religion, see ER Dodds. The Greeks and the Irrational. Cal Pr. esp pp. 31-32.) </p>
<p>What follows? &quot;God [the Peeping Tom] is dead.&quot; There are no surrogate for gods: no Pope, prelate, priest, pastor, rabbi, imam can dictate human behavior &mdash; or force submission to some state-supported officer of &ldquo;God&rdquo;. (State support of religion in the US comes through non-profit federal tax status and 1st amendment busting &ldquo;faith-based&rdquo; initiatives.) But, on to the real foundations of planet-wide social norms: </p>
<p>15:23 Tsze-kung asked, saying, &ldquo;Is there one word which may serve as a rule of practice for all one&rsquo;s life?&rdquo; The Master said, &ldquo;Is not &lsquo;reciprocity&rsquo; such a word? What you do not want done to yourself, do not do to others.&rdquo; [trans. S.R. McIntyre 2003] </p>
<p>All religions are outdated cultural artifacts. All ethics are irreducibly social. An ethic is a cultural artifact with certain necessary conditions &#8212; for example, prohibition of <i>murder</i>. </p>
<p>Deliberate killing (murder) of an in-group member (a person) cannot be tolerated (generalized); otherwise, no culture could exist. </p>
<p>It is truly comforting to trace my lineage back to a common chimp-human ancestor and not to some miserable first xian. Today&#039;s chimps do not demonstrate any of the non-rational behaviors humans indulge in under the name of &quot;religion.&quot;  </p>
<p>They do not pray (though they beg); they do not have rituals (though they play); they do not &quot;commit adultery&quot; (but do covet their neighbors&#039; mates); they do not lie (though they dissemble during dangerous sexual liaisons). </p>
<p>the anti-supernaturalist</p>
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		<title>By: Bible-Based Morality? The Ten Commandments &#124; AnAtheist.Net</title>
		<link>http://www.anatheist.net/2009/01/the-land-of-morality/comment-page-1/#comment-2104</link>
		<dc:creator>Bible-Based Morality? The Ten Commandments &#124; AnAtheist.Net</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Jan 2009 15:01:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.anatheist.net/?p=1260#comment-2104</guid>
		<description>[...] Yesterday I tried to show how sophisticated systems of morality have developed independent of the Bible. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Yesterday I tried to show how sophisticated systems of morality have developed independent of the Bible. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: GingerRed</title>
		<link>http://www.anatheist.net/2009/01/the-land-of-morality/comment-page-1/#comment-2099</link>
		<dc:creator>GingerRed</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Jan 2009 07:01:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.anatheist.net/?p=1260#comment-2099</guid>
		<description>The teaching of empathy goes a lot further than fear of retribution by some all seeing sky daddy. 
 
I teach my children empathy.  Would you like to be stolen from?  Do you like to be hit?  How does it feel when someone is horrible to you?  It&#039;s quite easy to teach children the right thing to do and raise them morally without any of that biblical nonsense.   
 
And honestly, my children are less inclined to kill any living creature because they believe it is the end of existence.  They understand the depth of life.  </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The teaching of empathy goes a lot further than fear of retribution by some all seeing sky daddy. </p>
<p>I teach my children empathy.  Would you like to be stolen from?  Do you like to be hit?  How does it feel when someone is horrible to you?  It&#039;s quite easy to teach children the right thing to do and raise them morally without any of that biblical nonsense.   </p>
<p>And honestly, my children are less inclined to kill any living creature because they believe it is the end of existence.  They understand the depth of life.</p>
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