Comments on: The Strange Case of Julea Ward http://www.anatheist.net/2009/04/the-strange-case-of-julea-ward/ Atheism & Religious Skepticism Wed, 17 Mar 2010 12:44:21 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.1 hourly 1 By: James Tracy http://www.anatheist.net/2009/04/the-strange-case-of-julea-ward/comment-page-1/#comment-7638 James Tracy Thu, 30 Jul 2009 08:32:44 +0000 http://www.anatheist.net/?p=2615#comment-7638 I am just as surprised as you are to see those threads gone. I did clean a lot of "spam" out of my comments database recently but that should not have effected our comments on this post. I checked the database and indeed they do seem to be missing. Nonetheless, I have dozens of database backups stretching back for months so I am going to see if I can find and restore them. EDIT: Actually, I found all of the comments in the current database after all. For some reason Intense Debate does not have them anymore - perhaps there is a way to re-sync the comments with ID... EDIT 2: Well, I attempted to re-sync all of the site's comments with Intense Debate and it appears that a whopping 2 of the many missing comments have re-appeared. Needless to say, I am a bit irked with Intense Debate right now... I am just as surprised as you are to see those threads gone. I did clean a lot of "spam" out of my comments database recently but that should not have effected our comments on this post. I checked the database and indeed they do seem to be missing. Nonetheless, I have dozens of database backups stretching back for months so I am going to see if I can find and restore them.

EDIT: Actually, I found all of the comments in the current database after all. For some reason Intense Debate does not have them anymore – perhaps there is a way to re-sync the comments with ID…

EDIT 2: Well, I attempted to re-sync all of the site's comments with Intense Debate and it appears that a whopping 2 of the many missing comments have re-appeared. Needless to say, I am a bit irked with Intense Debate right now…

]]> By: LLB http://www.anatheist.net/2009/04/the-strange-case-of-julea-ward/comment-page-1/#comment-7637 LLB Sun, 19 Jul 2009 23:38:59 +0000 http://www.anatheist.net/?p=2615#comment-7637 "Such a person needs to learn how to separate her personal morality from her job. " My goodness, doesn't this idea slide very quickly into dangerous territory. Should the same advice be given to our commander in chief? Teachers? Your arguments ignore the practical realities that people are free to seek medical advice from more than one place, so this idea that the medical profession is overwhelmingly littered with all these overly moralistic crackpots turning away desperate patients at the door is ridiculous. It seems perfectly reasonable to me that a doctor who does not believe in abortion should not be made to recognize it as a viable option for a patient. That doctor will undoubtedly explain why and the patient is free to pursue a second and possibly contradicting opinion. Are seconds opinions not common in medicine, if not recommended? Let's take the reverse: your logic would ultimately lead to this conclusion...that doctors would be forced by law to perform abortions even if those abortions violated their beliefs. That sounds much more dangerous, in my opinion. "Such a person needs to learn how to separate her personal morality from her job. "

My goodness, doesn't this idea slide very quickly into dangerous territory. Should the same advice be given to our commander in chief? Teachers? Your arguments ignore the practical realities that people are free to seek medical advice from more than one place, so this idea that the medical profession is overwhelmingly littered with all these overly moralistic crackpots turning away desperate patients at the door is ridiculous.

It seems perfectly reasonable to me that a doctor who does not believe in abortion should not be made to recognize it as a viable option for a patient. That doctor will undoubtedly explain why and the patient is free to pursue a second and possibly contradicting opinion. Are seconds opinions not common in medicine, if not recommended?

Let's take the reverse: your logic would ultimately lead to this conclusion…that doctors would be forced by law to perform abortions even if those abortions violated their beliefs. That sounds much more dangerous, in my opinion.

]]> By: James Tracy http://www.anatheist.net/2009/04/the-strange-case-of-julea-ward/comment-page-1/#comment-7569 James Tracy Fri, 17 Jul 2009 15:21:37 +0000 http://www.anatheist.net/?p=2615#comment-7569 If you want to talk about abortion then consider this: Some forms of abortion are legal in the United States and therefore fall under the duties of certain medical professionals. A pharmacist, for example, cannot refuse to sell a woman morning after pills simply because that pharmacist has a moral issue with them. Such a person needs to learn how to separate her personal morality from her job. If you want to talk about abortion then consider this: Some forms of abortion are legal in the United States and therefore fall under the duties of certain medical professionals. A pharmacist, for example, cannot refuse to sell a woman morning after pills simply because that pharmacist has a moral issue with them. Such a person needs to learn how to separate her personal morality from her job.

]]> By: Maria http://www.anatheist.net/2009/04/the-strange-case-of-julea-ward/comment-page-1/#comment-7551 Maria Thu, 16 Jul 2009 23:21:35 +0000 http://www.anatheist.net/?p=2615#comment-7551 My question to you is why you think it is okay to impose a set of rules that would impose one morality on patients (by preventing me from finding a pro-life ob-gyn), in order to ensure that all doctors fit the morality of a sub-set of patients that think abortion is okay. As was pointed out earlier in this discussion, some doctors think abortion is murder and others don't. Some patients think abortion is murder, and others don't. Can't we all take the time to figure out which doctors are compatible with our beliefs, and go to them? Why does one patient's right to have an instant abortion referral outweigh my right to see a doctor that won't suggest that I abort my baby? My husband would not be alive today if his nineteen year old mother had followed a CA nurses's advice. This is not a fantasy. It is truth. And you neglect to point out that Julea would have counseled the young man regarding depression. She just felt that she could not adequately counsel him regarding the homosexual relationship. And in that case, isn't the response "hey...I'm not the best person for the job", the most responsible response? My question to you is why you think it is okay to impose a set of rules that would impose one morality on patients (by preventing me from finding a pro-life ob-gyn), in order to ensure that all doctors fit the morality of a sub-set of patients that think abortion is okay.

As was pointed out earlier in this discussion, some doctors think abortion is murder and others don't. Some patients think abortion is murder, and others don't. Can't we all take the time to figure out which doctors are compatible with our beliefs, and go to them? Why does one patient's right to have an instant abortion referral outweigh my right to see a doctor that won't suggest that I abort my baby?

My husband would not be alive today if his nineteen year old mother had followed a CA nurses's advice. This is not a fantasy. It is truth.

And you neglect to point out that Julea would have counseled the young man regarding depression. She just felt that she could not adequately counsel him regarding the homosexual relationship. And in that case, isn't the response "hey…I'm not the best person for the job", the most responsible response?

]]> By: Frank http://www.anatheist.net/2009/04/the-strange-case-of-julea-ward/comment-page-1/#comment-6767 Frank Tue, 30 Jun 2009 10:33:56 +0000 http://www.anatheist.net/?p=2615#comment-6767 This law might bite Christians on the ass. I might just refuse to help Christians. Double standards are so annoying. This law might bite Christians on the ass. I might just refuse to help Christians. Double standards are so annoying.

]]> By: Derek http://www.anatheist.net/2009/04/the-strange-case-of-julea-ward/comment-page-1/#comment-6211 Derek Mon, 01 Jun 2009 04:43:05 +0000 http://www.anatheist.net/?p=2615#comment-6211 I read the article and the comments made above and no one seems to point out the fact that this student only refused to affirm the patients homosexual orientation. If one can believe that homosexuality is okay, why can't another believe it's not? There is nothing stopping this patient from seeking another counselor who shares their views. Since this is not a judicial position where she's interpreting the law, there shouldn't be any requirement to "check" her beliefs at the door. There are counselors from all faiths and even counselors who are atheists. Her views are her right just as the patient's views are his/hers. I read the article and the comments made above and no one seems to point out the fact that this student only refused to affirm the patients homosexual orientation. If one can believe that homosexuality is okay, why can't another believe it's not? There is nothing stopping this patient from seeking another counselor who shares their views. Since this is not a judicial position where she's interpreting the law, there shouldn't be any requirement to "check" her beliefs at the door. There are counselors from all faiths and even counselors who are atheists. Her views are her right just as the patient's views are his/hers.

]]> By: James Tracy http://www.anatheist.net/2009/04/the-strange-case-of-julea-ward/comment-page-1/#comment-6163 James Tracy Fri, 29 May 2009 02:48:23 +0000 http://www.anatheist.net/?p=2615#comment-6163 Yeah but anyone who willingly decides to work at an abortion clinic obviously does not hold those beliefs. Yeah but anyone who willingly decides to work at an abortion clinic obviously does not hold those beliefs.

]]> By: Melinda Jackson http://www.anatheist.net/2009/04/the-strange-case-of-julea-ward/comment-page-1/#comment-6160 Melinda Jackson Fri, 29 May 2009 01:21:06 +0000 http://www.anatheist.net/?p=2615#comment-6160 I think it is very interesting that the author stated that a doctor should prefer to let a patient suffer or die instead of performing a medical procedure. That is exactly what you are asking medical professionals to do in the case of an abortion. To those who hold those beliefs, that is killing a patient !! No one should be forced to do that. We would lose millions of wonderful physicians if that was the case. Melinda Jackson I think it is very interesting that the author stated that a doctor should prefer to let a patient suffer or die instead of performing a medical procedure.

That is exactly what you are asking medical professionals to do in the case of an abortion. To those who hold those beliefs, that is killing a patient !! No one should be forced to do that. We would lose millions of wonderful physicians if that was the case.

Melinda Jackson

]]> By: James Tracy http://www.anatheist.net/2009/04/the-strange-case-of-julea-ward/comment-page-1/#comment-5719 James Tracy Sat, 16 May 2009 05:53:51 +0000 http://www.anatheist.net/?p=2615#comment-5719 “workers in health care settings — from doctors to janitors — can refuse to provide services, information or advice to patients on subjects such as contraception, family planning, <em>blood transfusions</em> and even vaccine counseling if they are morally against it.” “workers in health care settings — from doctors to janitors — can refuse to provide services, information or advice to patients on subjects such as contraception, family planning, blood transfusions and even vaccine counseling if they are morally against it.”

]]> By: William http://www.anatheist.net/2009/04/the-strange-case-of-julea-ward/comment-page-1/#comment-5714 William Sat, 16 May 2009 04:41:09 +0000 http://www.anatheist.net/?p=2615#comment-5714 Dude, you are such a liar. No one here is refusing blood transfusions or other emergency treatment, and referrals to other providers always made. Dude, you are such a liar. No one here is refusing blood transfusions or other emergency treatment, and referrals to other providers always made.

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