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	<title>Comments on: The Pentagon&#8217;s Holy Warriors Revisited</title>
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	<link>http://www.anatheist.net/2009/07/the-pentagons-holy-warriors-revisited/</link>
	<description>Atheism &#38; Religious Skepticism</description>
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		<title>By: Fr33think3r</title>
		<link>http://www.anatheist.net/2009/07/the-pentagons-holy-warriors-revisited/comment-page-1/#comment-7068</link>
		<dc:creator>Fr33think3r</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Jul 2009 12:57:14 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Richard D. Rosen aside, employment of military chaplains presents the oprotunity for abuse.   </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Richard D. Rosen aside, employment of military chaplains presents the oprotunity for abuse.</p>
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		<title>By: chaplee</title>
		<link>http://www.anatheist.net/2009/07/the-pentagons-holy-warriors-revisited/comment-page-1/#comment-7022</link>
		<dc:creator>chaplee</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 05 Jul 2009 01:56:05 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Accounts abound of chaplains assisting atheists, agnostics, and troops not of their faith. That&#039;s what &quot;provide&quot; religious support is about - helping a troop with any faith-issue they might have.  
 
The military (like the Senate which has a government-paid chaplain), is a secular organization with the deep religious issues that are embedded in the culture. That&#039;s why, starting with Geo Washington, there have always been chaplains available to help troops sort out questions of faith. The government subsidizes religious support so the First Amendment (and military person) is protected. Civilian subsidy of chaplains would violate the Amendment&#039;s intent because groups with the most money might provide the most chaplains...thus violating &quot;free exercise&quot; and possibly &quot;establishing&quot; a monopoly of one group over another. The only fair way to assist troops is by providing religious support for them - through a myriad chaplains from varied faith-groups. 
 
 &quot;Conversion&quot; is not a violation of the Constitution or military directives. Chaplains are not to &quot;proselytize&quot; but every week (usually on a Sunday or Saturday or Friday night), military chaplains, speaking and teaching from their faith perspective, have complete liberty to persuade others as they &quot;perform&quot; religious support within their faith-group. It&#039;s important to note that no chaplain preaches or teaches to coerced troops - it&#039;s a volunteer military and a voluntary congregation. Troops engage in faith discussions as they desire. &quot;Conversion&quot; is an individual changing his or her mind about something. If a atheist &quot;converts&quot; to Islam after voluntarily listening to and attending Islamic services, the Muslim chaplain knows that that choice was the converted&#039;s...he can&#039;t be charged with &quot;proselytizing&quot; or &quot;converting&quot; that person. 
  
Since even atheists have a &quot;faith&quot;, i.e., something which provides meaning and purpose for their lives,  I hope they respect our Founding Father&#039;s thinking on these matters - as seen in some very significant faith terminology in our Constitution and Amendments. No matter if our faith is religious or non-religious, my experience is the military works hard to properly apply Constitutional principles in these matters...for which I am extremely grateful. 
 </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Accounts abound of chaplains assisting atheists, agnostics, and troops not of their faith. That&#039;s what &quot;provide&quot; religious support is about &#8211; helping a troop with any faith-issue they might have.  </p>
<p>The military (like the Senate which has a government-paid chaplain), is a secular organization with the deep religious issues that are embedded in the culture. That&#039;s why, starting with Geo Washington, there have always been chaplains available to help troops sort out questions of faith. The government subsidizes religious support so the First Amendment (and military person) is protected. Civilian subsidy of chaplains would violate the Amendment&#039;s intent because groups with the most money might provide the most chaplains&#8230;thus violating &quot;free exercise&quot; and possibly &quot;establishing&quot; a monopoly of one group over another. The only fair way to assist troops is by providing religious support for them &#8211; through a myriad chaplains from varied faith-groups. </p>
<p> &quot;Conversion&quot; is not a violation of the Constitution or military directives. Chaplains are not to &quot;proselytize&quot; but every week (usually on a Sunday or Saturday or Friday night), military chaplains, speaking and teaching from their faith perspective, have complete liberty to persuade others as they &quot;perform&quot; religious support within their faith-group. It&#039;s important to note that no chaplain preaches or teaches to coerced troops &#8211; it&#039;s a volunteer military and a voluntary congregation. Troops engage in faith discussions as they desire. &quot;Conversion&quot; is an individual changing his or her mind about something. If a atheist &quot;converts&quot; to Islam after voluntarily listening to and attending Islamic services, the Muslim chaplain knows that that choice was the converted&#039;s&#8230;he can&#039;t be charged with &quot;proselytizing&quot; or &quot;converting&quot; that person. </p>
<p>Since even atheists have a &quot;faith&quot;, i.e., something which provides meaning and purpose for their lives,  I hope they respect our Founding Father&#039;s thinking on these matters &#8211; as seen in some very significant faith terminology in our Constitution and Amendments. No matter if our faith is religious or non-religious, my experience is the military works hard to properly apply Constitutional principles in these matters&#8230;for which I am extremely grateful.</p>
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		<title>By: Fr33think3r</title>
		<link>http://www.anatheist.net/2009/07/the-pentagons-holy-warriors-revisited/comment-page-1/#comment-6961</link>
		<dc:creator>Fr33think3r</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Jul 2009 20:01:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.anatheist.net/?p=3205#comment-6961</guid>
		<description>Some thoughts:  
 
A secular military should not need chaplains. That is not to say the troop don&#8217;t need or want chaplains. However, shouldn&#8217;t the faith groups subsidize the cost of the chaplains? Instead the military could provide mental health counselors.  
 
If I understand your scenario correctly, an atheist chaplain (if there could be such a person) could equally serve a Jew, a Christian, a Buddhist, and a Muslim by cheerfully assisting their faith needs. I find it difficult to imagine a person of faith taking faith advise from an atheist.  
 
I think the point of the article is that it appears as if some of the chaplains have conversion as a goal. Clearly, that is a violation of the Constitution and against the directives of the US Military.  
 </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Some thoughts:  </p>
<p>A secular military should not need chaplains. That is not to say the troop don&rsquo;t need or want chaplains. However, shouldn&rsquo;t the faith groups subsidize the cost of the chaplains? Instead the military could provide mental health counselors.  </p>
<p>If I understand your scenario correctly, an atheist chaplain (if there could be such a person) could equally serve a Jew, a Christian, a Buddhist, and a Muslim by cheerfully assisting their faith needs. I find it difficult to imagine a person of faith taking faith advise from an atheist.  </p>
<p>I think the point of the article is that it appears as if some of the chaplains have conversion as a goal. Clearly, that is a violation of the Constitution and against the directives of the US Military.</p>
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		<title>By: Del</title>
		<link>http://www.anatheist.net/2009/07/the-pentagons-holy-warriors-revisited/comment-page-1/#comment-6944</link>
		<dc:creator>Del</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Jul 2009 14:10:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.anatheist.net/?p=3205#comment-6944</guid>
		<description>Two comments: 
1. Most of this is old news and the breathless accusations and analysis in these articles are truly only one side of the story. 
2. All the articles in this edition show an amazing lack of understanding of the Consitutional issues at work in the secular setting of the military.  Military chaplains exist so the &quot;free exercise&quot; and &quot;no establishment of religion&quot; clauses of the First Amendment are not violated. A military person has a right to worship (or not) . Chaplains exist to ensure that right...and there are a variety of religious groups so there is no &quot;establishment&quot; of any particular faith. Chaplains are there to serve the troops only...not civilians of any country.  Further, a chaplain &quot;performs or provides&quot; religious support. That is, when  chaplains &quot;perform&quot; religious support  they must do so according to their faith-group. So when they preach, teach, etc, they do so with liberty,  openness and complete freedom. They are &quot;endorsed&quot; by a particular faith-group to faithfully represent that group. When they &quot;provide&quot; religious support,  however, they cheerfully assist any and all troops with their faith-needs...including atheists who might come for counseling, encouragement, etc.   This distinction is important and ensures troops individual faith-needs are met. A military person&#039;s engagement with chaplains is strictly voluntary and when, like in civilian society, they bump up against a religious comment (or any kind of comment with which they do not agree) they can engage, switch off, turn around or ignore the comment.  
 
Everyone has a &quot;faith-group&quot;...atheists included. The military may be the only American place where true ecumenicism, plurality and respect of any and all views is taken seriously.  The military environment is a remarkable application of the intention of the First Amendment. We should be be very thankful.  </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Two comments:<br />
1. Most of this is old news and the breathless accusations and analysis in these articles are truly only one side of the story.<br />
2. All the articles in this edition show an amazing lack of understanding of the Consitutional issues at work in the secular setting of the military.  Military chaplains exist so the &quot;free exercise&quot; and &quot;no establishment of religion&quot; clauses of the First Amendment are not violated. A military person has a right to worship (or not) . Chaplains exist to ensure that right&#8230;and there are a variety of religious groups so there is no &quot;establishment&quot; of any particular faith. Chaplains are there to serve the troops only&#8230;not civilians of any country.  Further, a chaplain &quot;performs or provides&quot; religious support. That is, when  chaplains &quot;perform&quot; religious support  they must do so according to their faith-group. So when they preach, teach, etc, they do so with liberty,  openness and complete freedom. They are &quot;endorsed&quot; by a particular faith-group to faithfully represent that group. When they &quot;provide&quot; religious support,  however, they cheerfully assist any and all troops with their faith-needs&#8230;including atheists who might come for counseling, encouragement, etc.   This distinction is important and ensures troops individual faith-needs are met. A military person&#039;s engagement with chaplains is strictly voluntary and when, like in civilian society, they bump up against a religious comment (or any kind of comment with which they do not agree) they can engage, switch off, turn around or ignore the comment.  </p>
<p>Everyone has a &quot;faith-group&quot;&#8230;atheists included. The military may be the only American place where true ecumenicism, plurality and respect of any and all views is taken seriously.  The military environment is a remarkable application of the intention of the First Amendment. We should be be very thankful.</p>
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