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	<title>Comments on: Free Will &amp; Sin</title>
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	<link>http://www.anatheist.net/2009/08/free-will-sin/</link>
	<description>Atheism &#38; Religious Skepticism</description>
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		<title>By: Clay</title>
		<link>http://www.anatheist.net/2009/08/free-will-sin/comment-page-1/#comment-8659</link>
		<dc:creator>Clay</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 15 Aug 2009 14:59:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.anatheist.net/?p=3530#comment-8659</guid>
		<description>This article and comments amaze me. You people are fundamentally retarded. The fact that &quot;god&quot; valued free will over other things is bull. He still had the foreknowledge about what would happen to Adam, Eve, and all their descendants. It proves &quot;god&quot; is evil. He knew that when he created Adam and Eve, and put them into that circumstance, he would be condemning millions of people to hell. Then, being a great &quot;god&quot;, he decides to punish all of Adam and Eve&#039;s offspring because he had foreknowledge of the original sin? Everyone should suffer because he decided to have them disobey &quot;god&quot;? By creating us and knowing what was going to happen, he was knowingly condemning man to hell, yet he loves all of us. We have free will because there is no god, and people who argue for the bible are ignorant. I was a christian for many years, and asking questions is a no no. If you put the bible under true scrutiny for even the littlest time, one realizes that the bible is full of contradictions and an evil god who hates many, who commits genocide and tells his followers to kill, rape, slaughter, and take slaves. I wouldn&#039;t mind people who followed the bible completely, because they would be showing the true colors of this religion and their would be no religion. Either the bible is god&#039;s law and can&#039;t be any other way, or it is open to interpretation. If number two. how does anyone know they are right? That is just an excuse to remain ignorant to the bible and still retain their faith. I attack Christianity because out of all of these religions, it is the worst. The Islamic faith is bad, but at least they don&#039;t lie about it. their believers aren&#039;t ignorant, they follow the religion as if the Koran was god&#039;s holy word. The christian&#039;s remain in ignorance about the violent and extreme religion that they follow. They claim things and believe it proof, while attacking others who do not believe what they believe. Christianity wouldn&#039;t thrive if there weren&#039;t enough ignorant morons to believe it. Just before you say not all followers are stupid, fun fact. 93 percent of the scientist community doesn&#039;t believe in god. The higher a person&#039;s intelligence level and education, the less likely they are to hold any religious beliefs. Before you get all defensive of christianity, why don&#039;t you keep an open mind and look at your religion, put it to the same standard that you put the other religions you don&#039;t believe in. You will find if you think about it and free your mind, really think about it, no religion will hold up under scrutiny. And just as an after thought to my &quot;attack&quot; on religion, I will add two things. I am not attacking religion, I am attacking ignorance. It just so happens religion is the leader of ignorance. Also, every person who brainwashes a child in their faith from an early age deserves to go to this hell you all speak of.  </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This article and comments amaze me. You people are fundamentally retarded. The fact that &quot;god&quot; valued free will over other things is bull. He still had the foreknowledge about what would happen to Adam, Eve, and all their descendants. It proves &quot;god&quot; is evil. He knew that when he created Adam and Eve, and put them into that circumstance, he would be condemning millions of people to hell. Then, being a great &quot;god&quot;, he decides to punish all of Adam and Eve&#039;s offspring because he had foreknowledge of the original sin? Everyone should suffer because he decided to have them disobey &quot;god&quot;? By creating us and knowing what was going to happen, he was knowingly condemning man to hell, yet he loves all of us. We have free will because there is no god, and people who argue for the bible are ignorant. I was a christian for many years, and asking questions is a no no. If you put the bible under true scrutiny for even the littlest time, one realizes that the bible is full of contradictions and an evil god who hates many, who commits genocide and tells his followers to kill, rape, slaughter, and take slaves. I wouldn&#039;t mind people who followed the bible completely, because they would be showing the true colors of this religion and their would be no religion. Either the bible is god&#039;s law and can&#039;t be any other way, or it is open to interpretation. If number two. how does anyone know they are right? That is just an excuse to remain ignorant to the bible and still retain their faith. I attack Christianity because out of all of these religions, it is the worst. The Islamic faith is bad, but at least they don&#039;t lie about it. their believers aren&#039;t ignorant, they follow the religion as if the Koran was god&#039;s holy word. The christian&#039;s remain in ignorance about the violent and extreme religion that they follow. They claim things and believe it proof, while attacking others who do not believe what they believe. Christianity wouldn&#039;t thrive if there weren&#039;t enough ignorant morons to believe it. Just before you say not all followers are stupid, fun fact. 93 percent of the scientist community doesn&#039;t believe in god. The higher a person&#039;s intelligence level and education, the less likely they are to hold any religious beliefs. Before you get all defensive of christianity, why don&#039;t you keep an open mind and look at your religion, put it to the same standard that you put the other religions you don&#039;t believe in. You will find if you think about it and free your mind, really think about it, no religion will hold up under scrutiny. And just as an after thought to my &quot;attack&quot; on religion, I will add two things. I am not attacking religion, I am attacking ignorance. It just so happens religion is the leader of ignorance. Also, every person who brainwashes a child in their faith from an early age deserves to go to this hell you all speak of.</p>
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		<title>By: Arthenor</title>
		<link>http://www.anatheist.net/2009/08/free-will-sin/comment-page-1/#comment-8453</link>
		<dc:creator>Arthenor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 09 Aug 2009 15:58:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.anatheist.net/?p=3530#comment-8453</guid>
		<description>I should also ask what you consider to be the correct model of human action. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I should also ask what you consider to be the correct model of human action.</p>
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		<title>By: Arthenor</title>
		<link>http://www.anatheist.net/2009/08/free-will-sin/comment-page-1/#comment-8452</link>
		<dc:creator>Arthenor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 09 Aug 2009 15:57:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.anatheist.net/?p=3530#comment-8452</guid>
		<description>While you repeatedly declare that there is no freewill, which you describe as &quot;a false model of human action&quot;, you provide absolutely no support for this claim. Your post, therefore, consists of unsupported claims and an anti-religious rant. 
 
You argue that religion is slavery and only the unreligious can be free, but having denied freewill altogether, you also deny the possibility of freedom for the unreligious. 
 
You also claim that the concept of freewill was invented to empower religious elites. While it is clear that some have abused religion for their own gain, that does not mean that all religion is lies invented for the benefit of elites or that this self-promotion is uniquely restricted to religious leaders. 
 
You also claim that freewill was invented to justify punishment. As you have denied freewill, do you deny that criminals should be punished? 
 
&quot;The very same myth which underlies islam is also core to xianity, judaism, (and historically, zoroastrianism).&quot; - anti_supernaturalist 
 
Following the context, the &quot;myth&quot; you refer to would seem to be freewill. Your argument seems to assume that Islam is false (a conclusion with which I agree, but which you have not supported) and that therefore, any supporting views within Islam must be false, and therefore they are false in other religions, such as those mentioned, which must therefore be false as well. This argument is a fallacy of division. That which is true of the whole (Islam) is not necessarily true of all of it&#039;s parts (the premise of freewill). 
 
You also mention a vigilant secular culture as the only hope of keeping human values alive. What do you consider to be human values? Why ought they to be universally valued by human beings? </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>While you repeatedly declare that there is no freewill, which you describe as &quot;a false model of human action&quot;, you provide absolutely no support for this claim. Your post, therefore, consists of unsupported claims and an anti-religious rant. </p>
<p>You argue that religion is slavery and only the unreligious can be free, but having denied freewill altogether, you also deny the possibility of freedom for the unreligious. </p>
<p>You also claim that the concept of freewill was invented to empower religious elites. While it is clear that some have abused religion for their own gain, that does not mean that all religion is lies invented for the benefit of elites or that this self-promotion is uniquely restricted to religious leaders. </p>
<p>You also claim that freewill was invented to justify punishment. As you have denied freewill, do you deny that criminals should be punished? </p>
<p>&quot;The very same myth which underlies islam is also core to xianity, judaism, (and historically, zoroastrianism).&quot; &#8211; anti_supernaturalist </p>
<p>Following the context, the &quot;myth&quot; you refer to would seem to be freewill. Your argument seems to assume that Islam is false (a conclusion with which I agree, but which you have not supported) and that therefore, any supporting views within Islam must be false, and therefore they are false in other religions, such as those mentioned, which must therefore be false as well. This argument is a fallacy of division. That which is true of the whole (Islam) is not necessarily true of all of it&#039;s parts (the premise of freewill). </p>
<p>You also mention a vigilant secular culture as the only hope of keeping human values alive. What do you consider to be human values? Why ought they to be universally valued by human beings?</p>
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		<title>By: anti_supernaturalist</title>
		<link>http://www.anatheist.net/2009/08/free-will-sin/comment-page-1/#comment-8429</link>
		<dc:creator>anti_supernaturalist</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 09 Aug 2009 02:18:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.anatheist.net/?p=3530#comment-8429</guid>
		<description>** A doctrine of &quot;free will&quot; is cover for enslavement 
 
There is no &quot;free will&quot;. There is no unfree will. There is no &quot;will&quot; whatsoever. &quot;Free will&quot; belongs to a false model of human action.  
 
The opposite of freedom is slavery. The slave is unfree. The slave has been deprived of personhood. The true believer is unfree . . .  is a slave . . . is a political non-entity, a willing dupe or a conditioned pawn of theocrats. 
 
Free Will is a bogus idea needed to make the vile concept of sin work. It belongs to the spurious two-world doctrine, a theologians&#039; construct designed to keep a hierarchy of religious thugs in power. The true believer must submit to thugs. 
 
There is no God-Ruler spewing Laws, scientific or moral, which nature must follow or humans ought to obey. There are lying self-aggrandizing persons who relish power and find in religion or religious ideology a means to exercise a death wish. 
 
The state-religious government of Iran is a paternalist, androcentric theocracy based squarely on the middle eastern myth of submission and obedience to authority. It requires &quot;sin&quot; as a &quot;willful violation&quot; of some god&#039;s laws. The hierarchy must be able to punish (!) without second thought the &quot;evil&quot;-doer. 
 
Whether the alleged Holy City is Qom, Mecca, Jerusalem, Rome, Salt Lake City . . . or the Bible Belt, free will must be believed in to keep the gods&#039; top dogs in power. The very same myth which underlies islam is also core to xianity, judaism, (and historically, zoroastrianism).  
 
Today we are still forced to suffer from the altogether bogus claims and political clout of the big-3 monster-theisms. Only a knowledgeable and vigilant secular culture can keep human values alive. 
 
the anti_supernaturalist </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>** A doctrine of &quot;free will&quot; is cover for enslavement </p>
<p>There is no &quot;free will&quot;. There is no unfree will. There is no &quot;will&quot; whatsoever. &quot;Free will&quot; belongs to a false model of human action.  </p>
<p>The opposite of freedom is slavery. The slave is unfree. The slave has been deprived of personhood. The true believer is unfree . . .  is a slave . . . is a political non-entity, a willing dupe or a conditioned pawn of theocrats. </p>
<p>Free Will is a bogus idea needed to make the vile concept of sin work. It belongs to the spurious two-world doctrine, a theologians&#039; construct designed to keep a hierarchy of religious thugs in power. The true believer must submit to thugs. </p>
<p>There is no God-Ruler spewing Laws, scientific or moral, which nature must follow or humans ought to obey. There are lying self-aggrandizing persons who relish power and find in religion or religious ideology a means to exercise a death wish. </p>
<p>The state-religious government of Iran is a paternalist, androcentric theocracy based squarely on the middle eastern myth of submission and obedience to authority. It requires &quot;sin&quot; as a &quot;willful violation&quot; of some god&#039;s laws. The hierarchy must be able to punish (!) without second thought the &quot;evil&quot;-doer. </p>
<p>Whether the alleged Holy City is Qom, Mecca, Jerusalem, Rome, Salt Lake City . . . or the Bible Belt, free will must be believed in to keep the gods&#039; top dogs in power. The very same myth which underlies islam is also core to xianity, judaism, (and historically, zoroastrianism).  </p>
<p>Today we are still forced to suffer from the altogether bogus claims and political clout of the big-3 monster-theisms. Only a knowledgeable and vigilant secular culture can keep human values alive. </p>
<p>the anti_supernaturalist</p>
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		<title>By: Video Game Design Careers: 6 Benefits To Working In The Industry &#124; 工业设计 Industrial Design</title>
		<link>http://www.anatheist.net/2009/08/free-will-sin/comment-page-1/#comment-8425</link>
		<dc:creator>Video Game Design Careers: 6 Benefits To Working In The Industry &#124; 工业设计 Industrial Design</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 09 Aug 2009 00:40:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.anatheist.net/?p=3530#comment-8425</guid>
		<description>[...] Free Will &amp; Sin &#124; AnAtheist.Net [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Free Will &amp; Sin | AnAtheist.Net [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Freewill, Evil, and Eternity &#171; Arthenor&#8217;s Ramblings</title>
		<link>http://www.anatheist.net/2009/08/free-will-sin/comment-page-1/#comment-8420</link>
		<dc:creator>Freewill, Evil, and Eternity &#171; Arthenor&#8217;s Ramblings</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Aug 2009 22:33:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.anatheist.net/?p=3530#comment-8420</guid>
		<description>[...] God, Evil, and Original Sin has received several responses. James from AnAtheist.net responds in Free Will &amp; Sin, positing that limited freewill could conceivably allow both freewill and a lack of evil. In the [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] God, Evil, and Original Sin has received several responses. James from AnAtheist.net responds in Free Will &amp; Sin, positing that limited freewill could conceivably allow both freewill and a lack of evil. In the [...]</p>
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		<title>By: James Tracy</title>
		<link>http://www.anatheist.net/2009/08/free-will-sin/comment-page-1/#comment-8395</link>
		<dc:creator>James Tracy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Aug 2009 07:54:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.anatheist.net/?p=3530#comment-8395</guid>
		<description>That&#039;s a good follow up question. If heaven is eternally good, then does it follow that there is no free will in heaven? </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That&#039;s a good follow up question. If heaven is eternally good, then does it follow that there is no free will in heaven?</p>
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		<title>By: Qohelet</title>
		<link>http://www.anatheist.net/2009/08/free-will-sin/comment-page-1/#comment-8394</link>
		<dc:creator>Qohelet</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Aug 2009 07:19:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.anatheist.net/?p=3530#comment-8394</guid>
		<description>&quot;The key answer is freewill. God certainly could have created a sin free world which contained only automatons. Clearly, God valued freewill enough that freewill with the potential for evil was more valuable to Him, and therefore, more perfect, than a world without it. The purpose for the tree seems clear as well. Freewill without the potential for negative exercise is not really free.&quot; 
 
Can the saved sin in heaven? If they can, then there is evil in heaven. If not, then god does not value freewill as much as you think. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&quot;The key answer is freewill. God certainly could have created a sin free world which contained only automatons. Clearly, God valued freewill enough that freewill with the potential for evil was more valuable to Him, and therefore, more perfect, than a world without it. The purpose for the tree seems clear as well. Freewill without the potential for negative exercise is not really free.&quot; </p>
<p>Can the saved sin in heaven? If they can, then there is evil in heaven. If not, then god does not value freewill as much as you think.</p>
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