Indonesia is the world most populous Muslim-majority country, with more than 200 million Muslim from about 240 million Indonesians. It is a religious country, although not a mono-religious country. It is more of a ’six-religious’ country, with the government acknowledging every citizen’s right to choose one religion out of six provided, without any option of opting out. Religion column is in almost every official form, from marriage (both the man and the woman must have the same religion), job application, even on citizens ID card. We Indonesians, whatever we believe or not believe, are forced to put a mask out of six. And the saddest part is, it has been that way since a long time ago, so long that many Indonesians stop realizing how wrong that is, and most of us eventually just cope with the condition and forget the ideal.

So today, although this is just a symbol, even though they make me pay 25€ before I can officially leave the church (Kirchenaustritt fee), I can finally tear up the mask other people forced me to wear in my whole life.

Religion: -

At last, first time in my life, I’m an atheist, officially, and I’m very thankful and proud about it.

Karl.

Related posts:

1. A Black Atheist Speaks Out
2. Atheism not officially recognized in India
3. My Path to Atheist

Blame it on my parents. They always told me to “think for myself”. I doubt they ever considered what would happen if I really did that. 

Now, I suspect what they meant was, “Think what we tell you but do it in your own words.” Too late. When I was 13, I began to question everything and soon the total absurdity of religion became apparent. 

Because I have been “encouraged” (forced) to read the bible many times, it was easy for me to see the contradictions in the book, what christians professed to believe, and how they lived. 

When I refused to go with them to their church, they said they “Would make me go.” 

I asked them, “How are you going to make me? How will forcing me to attend church change my mind?” Already, their attitude was starting to harden me against everything else they would tell me. 

Their next idea was to have their minister talk to me. I told them it was a waste of everyone’s time. They persisted and had him come to the house to “Talk some sense into me.” (as if they ever works for anyone) After about 15 minutes, of him quoting the bible to me and me pointing out that he was either wrong in his quotes or showing him how it said something else in another place, he became very angry and told me I was going to hell. I suspect it was because I knew the bible better than he did and was, at age 13, able to prove how ridiculous his arguments were. 

I told him, “If there is a Hell I’ll see you there. Save me a nice place, OK?” He said I was an impertinent, disrespectful child. By then, I was angry myself and for the first time, I told a christian that he was a hypocrite, a liar, and a fool. My parents insisted that I apologize. I refused and left the room to a lot of yelling and threats. 

For the next four years, I heard about this at least once a week. So the night I graduated high school, I left my parent’s home and didn’t see them again for well over a year. By then, I had completed a couple of years of college, which fortunately, I was able to pay for myself. I was entering the army and wanted to try to make peace with them, but had to listen to the same old recriminations and arguments again. 

The next time I saw them was two years later when I was getting married. After several years of an on-again, off-again relationship they finally agreed to just not discuss it any more. I’d like to say that worked, but slowly subtle hints became outright condemnation. Then I took a job transfer from Ohio to Arizona, so family meetings were rare enough to become occasions for something other than contention. 

What did I learn? Even your family can turn against you if you refuse to share in their illusions.

Related posts:

1. My Path to Atheist
2. A Christian Whose Mind Was Changed
3. William Lobdell & The Christian Proselytizers

In his latest post, which details the story of a young teenager who died of a ruptured appendix because his family chose faith over medical care. This one, however, hit especially close to home. As a preface to the story, Perry has included his own brush with death under extremely similar circumstances. This you really have to read:

Keeping this archive updated can be down right depressing at times. There is no end to the cruel abuses perpetrated on children by religious believers. Only a small percentage of that abuse ever makes it into a news or magazine article, however, and this blog only archives some of those articles. Nevertheless, in less than a year and a half, I have already accumulated over 1300 articles. Some of them hit closer to home for me than others, such as the article below, which triggered some traumatic memories for me.

You see, I was 17 years old, the same age as the teen in this article, when I came down with appendicitis. Just over a year earlier, in 1972, I had joined the Children of God cult, now known as The Family International. After several intense months of indoctrination, I was sent to the ‘mission field’ of Japan. The cult was just getting rooted there, with only a few scattered communes, so new-comers like me were immediately sent on the road, two by two, to sell literature. While staying in a youth hostel, I began to get severe abdominal pains during the night. As morning dawned I was in obvious agony, so my partner informed the hostel manager who immediately suggested I go the hospital, which was right across the street. I refused to go, however, because I had effectively been indoctrinated by the cult to believe that any sickness or medical problem was a sign of disobedience to God. I was also taught that going to doctors showed a lack of faith — if I was sick it was a test of my faith in God — and that sickness was often a sign of yielding to the devil. I had also seen others in the cult punished, reprimanded or criticized for being sick. In short, the cult believed, and still does, that physical ailments have spiritual origins—either God is testing you or the devil is attacking you.

Doubled over in agony, barely able to walk, I continued to resist going to the hospital for several hours out of fear of displeasing God and my cult leaders. The pain became so unbearable, however, that I eventually gave in and went to the emergency ward. It took a few hours for the test results, during which time I thought I might die, the pain was so bad. Finally, the doctor told me I either had a severe infection or appendicitis and gave me the option of two courses of action. By that time, I was almost delireous with pain, I could hardly think straight, so I told him I just wanted the pain to stop and he should decide for me. He decided to open me up, and after the emergency surgery he told me I had had acute appendicitis and that my appendix could have burst at any time.

I spent several days recuperating, during which time my partner contacted the cult leaders hundreds of miles away in Tokyo. After I was released, I went to the nearest cult commune to recuperate, and the cult leaders came down to speak to me, or I should say, to punish me. That’s exactly what they did. They told me that I had endangered the work of God in Japan, and as punishment I would be sent back to America. To cult members, that was like a death sentence, since this apocalyptic cult believe the deranged teachings of David Berg, who claimed America would soon be destroyed by God for their wickedness.

I nearly suffered the same fate as the teen in the article below, because of religious indoctrination. When I refused medical care, I was not doing so from an informed, rational, uncoerced position, but out of fear instilled in me through indoctrination into Christian fundamentalism. So keep that in mind as you ponder whether the teen in this article was freely exercising his religious rights, or was under undue influence and pressure not to seek medical treatment.

Fortunately, we now have Perry with us to give us this great service. Imagine what may have become of this child and so many others who were not so lucky.

Related posts:

1. Newt’s Conversion Story
2. The End of Hereditary Religion
3. One Death Too Many…

Back in March I described how one of these missionaries, who used to be an atheist until the age of 16, came to the Mormon faith:

After searching out a few religions, he got a good feeling about Mormonism (I can’t imagine what about Mormonism made him feel good) – one that filled him from head to toe. Then he read the Book of Mormon and became convinced that it could not have possibly been made up byJoseph Smith (even though there is no independent external evidence for Hebrews living in the Americas). After much praying, he felt like God answered him in some indescribable manner and he is now 100% certain of the truth of his religious beliefs.

After my last encounter with the missionaries I wrote a post concluding that they are essentially self-deluded. As with the person quoted above, their reasons for belief essentially boil down to it feels right! When you ask them how you, too, can come to know that Mormonism is true their answer is you have to pray over the book of Mormon and wait for God to tell you that it is true. In other words, you have to fool yourself into believing that you are receiving divine signals from God. The more warm and fuzzy you feel, the more that is a sign that it is all true.

Let’s be clear here about something. The missionaries are young, usually late teens and early twenties. Based on my experience with several of them, they are not particuarly well versed in apologetics and deflect the most serious challenges to their faith. Rather, they seemed to be trained to simply introduce the faith and then facilitate in creating some sort of emotional connection. They do this by asking you to read out loud various verses from both the Bible and the Book of Mormon, to pray with them, and then by inviting you to a local worship service where you can experience the faith in action.

None of this was surprising to me, to say the least. After the last meeting it seemed to me that I had gone about as far as I could with them. They obviously thought otherwise by contacting me yet again to arrange another meeting with two new missionaries. Since I didn’t really give them the chance in prior meetings to fully explain the intricacies of their faith to me I decided that I would hear them out this time around.

After they arrived, I let them go through their entire explanation of the Mormon ‘plan of salvation’ with little interruption. In a nut shell, it goes something like this: You lived with God as a spirit body before you were born on Earth. During this pre-Earth life, you were already told all about the plan of salvation and about Jesus Christ. However, you won’t remember this after you are born because all of your memories of it are withheld from you (makes sense, right?). As with Christianity, once you come to Earth in a physical body you must accept Jesus Christ as your Lord and savior and for atonement for the Fall of Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden. This is God’s masterful plan, mind you. After death, your spiritual body leaves your physical body and travels to the ’spirit world’ which is more or less like a holding place. In this case, your memories of Earth are not withheld from you. If you had accepted Jesus Christ during your life, you will end up in the better half of the spirit world (where you can just relax). Otherwise, you end up in a spirit prison. At some point in the future Jesus will return and reign on Earth for a thousand years. God will then physically ressurect everyone who has lived and died in order to be judged. From there you will proceed to one of three different kingdoms. Those who are sinful and do not repent go to the Telesial Kingdom. Those who did not accept Jesus but lived honorable lives go to the Terrestrial Kingdom. All others go the the great Celestial Kingdom of bountiless joy.

I was immediatley struck by how their doctrines allow you to get around some of the stickier aspects of plain Christianity. For example, what happens to all of those people who lived and died before Jesus or did not have an opportunity to hear the gospel after Jesus? According to the missionaries, everyone who dies will get another opportunity in the spirit world to learn about and accept the Gospel. That almost gets you there. Another requirement if you want to get into that coveted Celestial Kingdom is baptism into the Mormon Church on Earth. Well, shucks. How can you be physically baptised after death? No fear, however, they thought of a way around this problem, too. A Mormon priest on Earth can baptise anybody who has died by ‘proxy’ or after the fact.

Well, that’s just sweet. Unfortunately the consequences of these doctrines gives a person little incentive to do anything in this life if you can easily convert after death while in the spirit world. I pointed this out to them and asked what my incentive is to convert (especially if I am, ehem, highly skeptical of their claims anyway)? I don’t think that they had ever thought about this question before because they seemed to be a bit baffled by it. So I was like, OK, if I end up in a spirit prison after I die and spirit Mormons are there telling me that this was in fact all true, then that would be sufficient proof for me. Apparently I am good to go so long as I am baptized by proxy by a Mormon on Earth, which the missionaries claimed will be done for everyone anyway during the 1,000 years that Christ reigns on Earth!

In response, they said that it would be much better if you accepted the doctrines now because there would be less work in the after life for you to do. So – with Christianity I am risking eternal hellfire by not accepting their doctrines but with Mormonism I am only risking a little more work in the afterlife. That settles that for me!

Even if I were Blaise Pascal then I wouldn’t worry if Mormonism was true or not right now.

Related posts:

1. Why a Mormon Likes Atheists
2. An Exercise in Self-Delusion
3. Atheism and Rational Thinking

—– “Out Of The Closet” – Black Atheists (Sikivu Hutchinson/LA Watts Times; May 18)

In some black communities it’s akin to donning a white sheet and a Confederate flag. In others, it’s ostensibly tolerated yet whispered about, branded culturally incorrect and bad form, if not outright sacrilege.

For black atheists like myself, proclaiming one’s non-belief amidst genial wishes to “have a blessed day” is never easy in the seemingly innocuous context of casual chit chat between black folk.

Yet, according to The New York Times, a small but growing segment of the American population, galvanized by the hyper-evangelical climate of the Republican Pleistocene, have begun organizing nationwide and becoming more vocal about their atheism.

Although African Americans are not visible in the “movement,” some are easing away from religion. For black atheists, actively breaking with religious tradition is an even graver rejection than that of white intellectuals electrified by the “pew-storming” rhetoric of atheist gurus such as Christopher Hitchens or Richard Dawkins.

This is partly due to the fact that the history of African American civil and human rights resistance is heavily steeped in Judeo-Christian religious dogma.

Despite the White Anglo Saxon Protestant religious justification for slavery and domestic terrorism, African Americans converted to Christianity and utilized it as a source of succor, community and spiritual redemption.

No matter one’s actual deeds, life path or personal mores, to be unquestioningly religious in some quarters is to be inoculated from criticism. Noting this historical irony in his blog “The Black Atheist,” Wrath James White states, “In these (black) communities you find more tolerance towards gangbangers, drug addicts, and prostitutes, who pray to God for forgiveness than for honest productive citizens who deny the existence of God. This, for me, is one of the most embarrassing elements of Black culture, our zealous embrace of the God of our kidnappers, murderers, slave masters and oppressors.”

While there have been critical appraisals of African American adoption of Christianity within the context of European conquest and racial slavery, few propose atheism as a corrective. Indeed, atheism would seem to fly in the face of a cultural ethos that frames earthly pain and suffering as a crucible for achieving rewards in the afterlife.

In the midst of extreme brutality, religious faith can either be seen as a means to mental health, or, as Karl Marx put it more bluntly, an opiate.

In this sense, contemporary black religiosity is the legacy of a culturally specific survival strategy. Many black community-based organizations still look to the black church as a coalition partner and resource. Disturbingly, the church is often uncritically perceived as the “backbone” of the black community.

However, as the debate over California’s Proposition 8 demonstrated, the notion that there is a monolithic “marching in lockstep” black community is terminally outdated.

On issues of gender and sexual orientation, the overwhelming opposition of many prominent black churches to granting civil rights to partnered African American gays and lesbians is morally indefensible.

When it comes to attitudes about traditional gender roles, gender-based assumptions about black female religiosity are double-edged. While black male non-believers are given more leeway to be heretics, black women who openly profess atheist views are deemed especially traitorous, having eschewed their family role as purveyors of culture and religious tradition.

Images of black women faithfully shuttling their children to church and socializing them into Christianity are a prominent part of mainstream black culture. If being black and being Christian are synonymous, then being black, female and religious (whatever the denomination) is practically compulsory. Black women with children who don’t fall in line, who raise their children as atheists, may find their race credentials revoked.

On the national level, the contradictions between American secularism and religion have produced a schizoid tension in the U.S., whereby religious fundamentalism and intolerance for secular thought have become the norm. When it’s practiced in the non-Western world, Americans routinely brand this kind of propaganda as backward and extremist.

Yet, in this, the most swaggeringly liberal humanist of all nations, “coming out” as an atheist in a culture that parades religious dogma as a substitute for true morality may be the final frontier.

(Sikivu Hutchinson is the editor of blackfemlens.org and a commentator for KPFK 90.7 FM)

Related posts:

1. Staks Rosch Speaks Out!
2. Another Self-Inflicted Black Eye
3. My Path to Atheist

My persona is Chris Agnostic.  No, this is not my real name, simply a name to be easily identified.  Think of it as a stage name if you will.

My path towards Atheism started when I was young.  I grew up in a family (Mother and Father) who didn’t go to church.  The only time I went was when I visit my Grandmother, who was a devout Pentecostal.  When you are young and go to Church, all of it seems awesome (and intimidating).  My Grandmother’s church was a small one, few people went.  Looking back, I realized that many of them were as old as my Grandmother.  We had Sunday School and went to Church twice on Sunday’s, which the night service was always boring and I remember always thinking, When will it end?

As I grew older, I began to see flaws.  My Grandmother was well liked at her Church, everyone thought she was sweet and a delight to have around.  But once she came home, she changed.  Me and her were on different ends.  She herself had 6 daughters, and each daughter on the average had 2 children, giving me about 11 other cousins.  Out of all of the Cousins, I was the only one who didn’t get along with her.  I was a Star Trek fan.  I was a fan of Sci-Fi.  She constantly made fun of my likes and my dreams.  She was meaner to me than any other.  How could this be the same person who was well loved at Church?  I didn’t like her.  It is interesting how Christians are always quick to point out that it is wrong for me not to like my Grandmother, or Brother, or any other family member.  But Love, like Trust and Respect, is something that is earned and not automatically assumed.

I digress…

This was perhaps the seed that started me towards the path, but at the time it left me in a state of wanting to learn more.  As I grew older, I found that I knew little of religion.  As I had mentioned my parents were not religious.  My Mother growing up in the world of my Grandmother, left her despising religion.  When I got to High School, I was certain (without a doubt) there was a God.  Just the Bible remained a mystery.  I grew up in Mesa, Arizona.  For those who don’t know, it is a predominately a Mormon Town.  It was founded by Mormons.  I am not inciting hate here, but my growth was limited due to growing up with people of the Morman faith.  I had found that many children of the faith despise the pratice and were quickly wishing to escape from it.  I did try talking to those of the devout, but I never found the answers I was looking for.

By High School I had met other Christians, even went to a club called FCA (For Christian Atheletes, which most of the people there were not Athletes, perhaps they should opt to change their name).  I went for a whole year, but was still left empty by the experience.  I even dated a girl and fell madly in love with her who was a devout Christian.  But she didn’t return that love back.  She helped me on my guide but it didn’t solidify me in faith.  Also during the time of High School, I learned of Evolution and felt that God and Evolution were mutually exclusive.  But I felt I was the only one who thought like that.  It wasn’t until a few years ago I came across Kenneth L. Miller that I found I was wrong in thinking I was alone.

After High School I joined the Air Force, where I encountered many different people of faith.  I went to Church on Sunday, which was interesting but found myself often falling alseep.  I tried going to different Church each week and found them all to be boring.  Eventually I stopped going.  Once I was out of Basic, on few occasions I went to church but I still questioned everything.  There was a girl there I met who was devout in her beliefs and she knew of my situation.  We became friends, good friends.  We talked a lot.  During our time together, I was able to get her to question her beliefs, stating that the only reason she believed in what she does is because that is what her parents told her she believed in.  For a short time she questioned that and open herself up to new possibilities, but then decided that she wanted to hold onto what she already believed in.  I am OK with that, at the very least she questioned it.

Another person I met in the Military gave me a Bible.  I complained that I had trouble understanding the Bible since it was written in Old English and was written like poetry.  I wanted to read it like a book in modern times.  I would often get a response that you cannot change the word of God, thus why it cannot be translated.  I wish I had the insight I do now back then and point out the books of the bible were not originally in English.  This other person gave me a Bible that was a “Living Translation” so now I could better understand the bible.  I was told that it was not best to read the Bible straight through and in fact you needed to read in a specific order contrary to chronlogically.  So I started with Corinthians, and I encountered a verse that stated “Women do not have a voice in Church”.  This angered me and I suddenly realized (though I knew before, just didn’t really connect the dots) that the Bible was bad as it has been used to discriminate against people through history.  That started me on the path that while I believed in God, I felt the bible was wrong.

But I was alone.  Who could I talk to about any of this.  No one.  I didn’t realize I was now Agnostic.  I felt I was still Christian, just not according to the Christians.  Over time, I learned that I was Agnostic Theism.  And that was pretty much my life until about a year ago.  I was working, and suddenly without any other thought leading up to this, it hit me, Why do I believe in God?

Until then, I was always certain I believed in God.  I event went to Church a few times, but often found myself alone as I often disagreed with the message being delievered (also I once brought up the teaching of Buddah when discussing that of Solomon).  No matter what else I had a lack of faith in, my devotion of God remained.  But I realized the only reason I believed in God was because somewhere along the way, someone told me there was a God and thus, I believed in God.  When I took a step back and looked at everything, I realized, there is no evidence for God.  I never came to God on my own, I just accepted what Authority figures told me.

I felt conflicted.  For 28 years of my life, I was certain there was a God, and now I couldn’t hold on to that belief.  It pained me.  I still had no one to talk to.  I didn’t know what to do.  So I started to try to find evidence for God, see if I could come back to the notion that there was a God.  Often times in great distressed, I relied on asking help from God and wondered if my doing so was evidence that there was a God.  But I came to the conclusion it was mere instinct to do it, possibly one set by my own evolution.  But I am not controlled by my instincts.  The only thing that held true for me was evolution.  That at least had evidence.  So, the first task to my becoming Atheist was to train myself not to turn to God in distress.  That was difficult at first, and I knew it to be the right thing to do, although at first I questioned if I was being dishonest with myself.

During my time of questioning my faith and being on the path towards Atheism, I met some people who were also Atheist in a Guild for Team Fortress 2.  I suddenly didn’t feel alone and I also discovered that YouTube had a lot to offer me.  Specifically of Penn & Teller show (you know the name), and the work of Thunderf00t (Why do people laugh at Creationists).  I looked at many others, including George Carlin before he died and it just all made sense to me.  There was no God.

Also during the time Ben Stein movie came to my attention and I didn’t research on it (without watching it) and I learned who Richard Dawkins was.  So I thank Ben Stein for helping me on my path for introducing Richard Dawkins.  I often talked to my Mother about all of this and what I was going through, and she bought 2 copies of The God Delusion, one for her and one for me.  It was in this book I read of the 1 – 7 scale of Faith and that he was a 6.

I adopted this scale for myself and made it 1 – 100.  At the time I recongized I was an Atheist, I put myself at 90 (which Dawkins would be 91 – 95).  Watching all the videos and talking to a lot of people I came to a couple of conclusions.  So I will now give an overall conclusion of my path and where I started as an Agnostic Theist to where I am now:

30 – Agnostic Theist

I strongly believe there is a God, but I know the Bible to be mostly wrong.

90 – Atheism

I cannot support any evidence that God exists, or any universal consciousness exists, and it is likely it doesn’t exist.

85 – Agnostic Atheism

God is supernatural, and thus not a physical entity of the Universe.  Scientific Understanding is that of testing the phsyical realm.  Since God is not of the physical realm, this concludes no evidence of God can exist.  This gives the conclusion that if God exists, there is no evidence.  But no evidence does not give way that there is a God.  My conclusion at this time is the simpliest explination, there is no God.

80 – Agnostic Atheism

In philosophy, there is always a mover.  If we see an object, turn our back, and then look at the object again to see it in a different place, then we conclude there someone or something caused the object move, which there was someone or something to cause that unknown to act.  We can go back and back and back to where we reach the ultimate unknown, which gives rise to God.  If the Big Bang happened, then something set it into place.

83 – Agnostic Atheism

But if there is a God, and God created everything, then what created God?  If God is complex, then he arrived through his own method of evolution.

As you can see, I still set that there is no God, but I give rise to the oppurtunity that there might be a God, but it is likely not the Christian God.  If anyone is interested, I will be happy to post my scale from 1 to 100 that identifies where you fit in with your beliefs and understandings (or lack there of).  It is comprehensive, but I think it is a nice tool to help people identify themselves.  I urge anyone to ask me questions.  I plan on someday soon posting videos on YouTube to discuss various aspects of the Bible, for the purpose to prove that Atheist do read it, and to gain understanding/clarity of the Bible.  Perhaps one day I will believe in God again, but I do not see myself going any higher than Agnostic Theism.

I am proud to admit, I am an Atheist.

Related posts:

1. Testimony of a Mad Atheist
2. A Black Atheist Speaks Out
3. What kind of (atheist/theist) are YOU?

Atheists discuss their outlook, relationships

Image by Atilla1000 via Flickr

For 35 years, Terry McDonald was a devout Catholic, going to Catholic schools and participating in the parish council. Now he’s recognized as something that confuses and even frightens some – he’s an atheist.

“When you tell someone you’re not a theist, it’s like saying I’m taking the issue that is closest to them and discrediting it,” said McDonald, chairman of Metroplex Atheists.

The stigma attached to atheism, be it perceived or real, is part of what McDonald is trying to quell.

“We’d like to show Christians we don’t have horns and a tail,” McDonald said. “We’re just normal people.”

This week, the Metroplex Atheists, along with other nonreligious groups, erected billboards in Dallas and Fort Worth to let other nonbelievers know they have company.

“Don’t believe in God? You are not alone,” the billboards read.

According to a survey by The Pew Forum on Religion & Public Life, 1.6 percent of respondents classified themselves as atheists, and 16.1 percent were “unaffiliated.”

McDonald said he’s studied world religions extensively and still has strong Christian friends.

“I find it interesting what people believe. I find it fascinating,” he said.

So do others.

When Pastor Derward Richardson co-founded Grand Prairie’s Summit Baptist Church about two years ago, he envisioned a church that was small enough to be intimate but open enough to listen to differing beliefs.

He invited McDonald to speak at a public atheist/Christian dialogue. About 75 people turned out one Saturday night to hear the discussion.

Lifelong Baptist Judy Helms said she was “very apprehensive” before attending the forum.

“I didn’t know what to expect, like everybody else,” she said. “When you say the word ‘atheist,’ I don’t put it with a human. I put it with a monster. I found out, no, they’re human. They’re people who are different from me. It’s like when kids talk about the boogeyman and realize he’s not real.”

[It’s easier for religious theists to picture atheists as unfeeling monsters stomping on their beliefs, until they look us in the eyes. It’s easier to demonize a personal stereotype than an actual human being. But how are atheists not supposed to be offended by the idea that many people picture us as monsters, as not even human?]

McDonald told the crowd that he rejected Catholicism in his late 30s because “when I looked for God, he wasn’t there.”

Helms said that although she still disagrees with McDonald, she’s glad to hear his beliefs.

“I want people to know that my pastor has an atheist friend … and there’s nothing wrong with that,” Helms said.

“Isn’t that what we’re supposed to do – get along with each other? The whole world can take a lesson from that.”

Clark Vinson, a Baptist-turned-atheist who grew up in Irving, said he believes he has been discriminated against in the Bible Belt because of his lack of religion.

“I was on the verge of sealing a contract for $105,000 a year for a school district in the area for counseling services,” said Vinson, who was a therapist at the time. “I lost the contract suddenly.”

He said a friend who worked for the district told him a school official was disturbed after seeing a Darwin fish on his car.

[What was the school official supposedly “disturbed” by? The fact that Vinson accepts the scientific theory of evolution? I’d be more disturbed by trusting six figure contracts in the hands of someone who rejects reality in favor of young earth absurdities, ID, and who knows what else.]

But Vinson, like other members of Metroplex Atheists, said he and theists can still have good relationships.

“My secretary is very Christian, and she said she’s going to convert me,” Vinson said. “We laugh about it. We still have a good time and get along well.”

Atheists and Christians can do more than just get along: They can be happily married.

Randy and Dana Word have been married for more than 40 years. The couple lives with their daughter, Kelly Word, and Dana’s parents. Everyone in the house is a devout Christian except Randy Word. He’s vice chairman of Metroplex Atheists.

Though the family gets along most of the time, an evening discussing beliefs can get quite heated.

“We get into it about once a week,” said Kelly Word, 27. “It’s never a dull moment.”

On one particular evening, Randy Word noted that he had no problem with his wife taking their children to church when they were young. But now he regrets not exposing them to other beliefs – or lack of beliefs – as well.

“At any given time, there’s a thousand gods people worship to,” he said.

“But that would lead to more confusion for the child,” his daughter replied. “If you give them all these options, that’d be overwhelming.”

Randy Word countered: “It’d be more like, ‘Kelly, remember, this isn’t the only religion. Always question everything.’ ”

The volume of their argument increased.

“So you’re saying be untrusting?” his daughter said.

“Maybe you trust too much,” he replied.

“I can decipher between what’s really ridiculous and what’s not,” Kelly Word said.

Despite such contentious debates among family members, their religious disagreement pales in comparison with the strength of the family, the Words say.

“I know how he feels. I feel very sad he feels that way, but I don’t say it to him,” said Dana Word. “He’s an honest, good man. He’s one of the fairest people I know. My mother and father live with us. There’s not a much nicer man who would invite the in-laws and be so kind to them.”

Randy Word said the family works well because it shares positive morals and values. “I believe in the Golden Rule,” he said. “I believe in tolerance and compassion. I don’t need religion to give me that.”

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About a month ago I met some Mormon missionaries on my campus. They had a table set out on our main drag and were handing out free copies of the Book of Mormon. I have many bibles and a Quran but not a Book of Mormon, so if I could get one for free then all the better. The catch, of course, is that they request follow up appointments with you so that they can, well, missionize. For me that is just icing on the cake, so I gladly accepted one and set up a meeting with them. Yesterday I met with three Mormons in their little educational headquarters (conveniently) right next to my campus. This was my third visit with them and it lasted about an hour and forty-five minutes. Two of the three I spoke with before and the third individual was new to me. He is a graduate student studying bioinfomatics – which is actually quite fascinating – which means that he has a background in both the biological sciences and computer science.

To say that the conversation was productive would be erroneous. On the other hand, it was quite revealing. Revealing in the sense that I could witness precisely how these individuals had succeeded – despite my best exhortations – to self-delude themselves. They met up with me thinking that they would be telling me about God’s plan of salvation but instead I steered the conversation to a more important and more pressing question – why should myself or anyone believe Joseph Smith’s claims, and therefore the Mormon Church’s claims, about the Book of Mormon?

“Joseph Smith is either a fraud or was telling the truth. If he was a fraud then you can throw this stuff out and move along. If what he said was true, however, are you prepared to follow that truth?” was what they basically told me.

All of this I readily agreed with. Any reasonable person would have to admit that, if it could be convincingly shown that the Book of Mormon is not a fraud but a true part of God’s revelation then we should all be Mormons. All right, fine. For the next hour or so I probed into precisely why they believe it is not a fraud.

They gave me roughly two different answers. The first is the old ‘by its fruits you shall know’ type argument. In other words, if  you read the teachings and they make good sense and result in good things happening in your life then this is evidence that it is true. Well, that may be evidence but it is not compelling evidence – all of the above could quite easily follow from untrue beliefs.

The second is basically this: When reading and praying about the Book of Mormon they were overcome by an overwhelming experience that what Joseph Smith claimed was true and that he was, indeed, a prophet of God. Conversational Atheist has recently called this the “warm-fuzzy-feeling truth detector” – which is an apt phrase. We must have spent most of the last hour or so going round and round over this point. Unfortunately, it seems that this method of acquiring knowledge only ‘verifies’ things that cannot be otherwise independently verified. They just know it is true because they know it is true!

This is, plain and simply, an exercise in self-delusion. If you want to delude yourself into believing something that you cannot possibly know to be true – this is the way to do it. When I pointed out – repeatedly – the flaws in this kind of thinking and asked for other means of verification they would acknowledge my point but then go right back to promoting their own self-delusion and hoping that I was willing to delude myself in the same manner. You can watch a powerful example of this kind of non-thinking, or anti-thinking, in that same blog post by Conversational Atheist. It really is disturbing.

When I tried to steer the conversation towards questions of historical and physical evidence that would corroborate the narratives told in the Book of Mormon – that is, that a group of Jews migrated from Jerusalem to the Americas (by a small boat, of course) and founded two great civilizations there – I was basically told in no uncertain terms that this kind of evidence is irrelevant!

It is only irrelevant or unimportant if it doesn’t exist, and, of course, in reality it doesn’t. Joseph Smith published the Book of Mormon around 1830 – long before we knew much of anything concerning the history of native Americans and long before genetic tests confirm their Asiatic, rather than Semitic, origins.

Here is the bottom line: The Book of Mormon is among the worst kind of historical evidence imaginable. It was copied from non-existent originals that were allegedly written in a language (Reformed Egyptian) that is not independently attested to either archaeologically or linguistically in the Near East or the Americas and is about a number of civilizations for which there is no independent historical evidence that they ever existed. That, my friends, is a clear sign of a fraud.

Related posts:

1. More Mormon Missionary Fun
2. Atheism and Rational Thinking
3. The Good Delusion

On the first occasion, a boy and a girl, clearly students, walked up to me and wanted to talk to me. I was in the middle of reading (a book on Daoism, nonetheless), so I asked them what this was all about. They told me that they were from the Lighthouse Bible Study group and wanted to ask me a few questions. Well, I couldn’t pass this one up so I agreed and asked them to sit down! The boy asked me, somewhat awkwardly, what I thought about God. I told him that I am atheist and don’t believe in any god or gods. This probably got him a bit excited because he suddenly began to open up a bit and talked on and on about how he was a non-believer too at one point before he ‘found’ Jesus and was saved. Of course, it turned his life around, too. He gave me the usual spiel about how accepting Jesus washes away one’s sins and grants eternal life or something like that.

There are, of course, many ways a skeptic and an atheist can respond in a situation like this. I asked him how exactly that works. Was it the sacrifice that did the trick? If so, then what did Jesus sacrifice? His life? But he was resurrected and taken to heaven. That’s doesn’t sound like a sacrifice to me. Was it shedding his blood? I asked him if the trick would have worked had the Romans used lethal injection to execute Jesus rather than the painful and bloody method of crucifixion. Additionally, I asked him if Jesus willingly went through all of this then why does he cry out at the end (according to a couple of the gospels), “My God, My God, Why have you forsaken me?” To these questions he gave me a long and incoherent response, but I suppose it came down to Jesus being the “lamb of god” and (magically) taking on all of the sins of humanity in his act (as if sin is something that can be moved around like an ordinary object!).

Then he told me how Jesus had fulfilled Old Testament prophecies of the Messiah. I pointed out that Jews, whose holy book happens to be the Old Testament, do not agree with that statement. The girl replied, “Well, yeah, I suppose if they did they would be Christians.” Of course! Anyway, I tried to explain how Jesus did not fulfill ancient Jewish messianic expectations. One of these is that the Messiah would be a descendant of David. Matthew and Luke both give genealogies of Jesus that supposedly trace his lineage all the way back to King David himself. The problem with these genealogies, of course, is that they are completely bogus. Neither Matthew nor Luke can even agree on who Joseph’s father was!

“Jesus was about thirty years old when he began his work. He was the son (as was thought) of Joseph son of Heli, son of Matthat, son of Levi, …” and so on (Luke 3:23-24).

…and Matthan the father of Jacob, and Jacob the father of Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom Jesus was born, who is called the Messiah” (Matthew 1:15-16).

What is amazing to me is that some Christians think that one of these genealogies is traced through Mary and the other through Joseph. So I wasn’t surprised when the girl made this claim. It makes me wonder if she has ever looked at these genealogies closely or is just repeating what she has heard elsewhere. All that you have to do is look at them. Joseph is given two different fathers and Mary is not included in either lineage – only mentioned in Matthew as Joseph’s wife. I think that she got a bit flustered when I refused to accept that pitiful explanation.

Another of these messianic expectations is that the Messiah would be born in Bethlehem, the city of David (i.e., David’s birthplace). Neither Mark nor John mention where Jesus was born. Rather, Mark simply states that Jesus was from Nazareth, which is in an entirely different region than Bethlehem. That was a problem for Matthew and Luke, so they each invented utterly different birth narratives to “show” how Jesus was born in Bethlehem yet hailed from Nazareth.

In Matthew, Jesus is born in Bethlehem because that is where his family lives. After he is a few years old the magi come looking for the King of the Jews. This frightens King Herod. The magi find Jesus at his home (not in a stable) in Bethlehem but do not return to report his whereabouts to Herod. So, Herod orders all male babies under the age of two killed in and around Bethlehem. Jesus and his family flee to Egypt, where they live until Herod dies. As they are heading home to Bethlehem they realize that Herod’s son is now ruling over Judah and might still want Jesus dead, so instead of returning home they decide to settle in the town of Nazareth in Galilee.

In Luke, Joseph and Mary are living in Nazareth (not Bethlehem) before Jesus is born. A census is announced from Rome that supposedly requires individuals to return to their ancestral town, so Joseph travels with his pregnant wife to Bethlehem. When they arrive there is no room in the inn so they stay in the stable, where Mary gives birth to Jesus. Shepherds arrive and praise the Lord. After eight days Jesus is circumcised and then they travel to the temple in Jerusalem for a purification rite. Once that is complete, they return home to Nazareth.

So, it should be clear that these stories are completely bogus as well. Anyway, I had to leave my two new friends at this point but I think that, at the very least, I left them with something to think about.

On the second occasion, one week later, once again a boy and a girl, clearly students, approached me with the intention of “talking” to me. This time, however, they were part of a evangelical Christian group on campus and the girl wanted to read to me a small pamphlet that she was holding. Please, sit down! The pamphlet turned out to be some kind of “evangelizing” device that is supposed to help the individual being targeted (me) turn him or herself over to Christ. It also relieves the student evangelical from memorizing pesky verses or thinking on his or her own. She started reading the pamphlet to me, which began with four “spiritual laws” that explained how we are all sinners under God, that Jesus died for our sins, etc, etc. I interrupted her on several occasions to ask questions which seemed to frustrate her. Apparently she expected me to keep largely quiet so that she could simply read her pamphlet.

At the end of the pamphlet it asks me whether I am currently living a “Christ-centered” life where Jesus is on the throne and my life serves him, or whether I am currently living a “self-centered” life where I place myself on the throne and my life serves myself. Well, I told her I wasn’t a Christian but at the same time I took some offense to the idea that that implies that I must be self-centered. I told her that I didn’t agree with that and her response was – she was sorry but those were the only two options in the pamphlet! So choose! Ugh. Well, I wasn’t taking the bait and she wasn’t too happy about it. I asked her some more questions, such as whether or not she believed that a decent person deserves to go to hell simply because that person doesn’t believe that God performed a magic trick 2,000 years ago in ancient Palestine that nobody witnessed. In other words, for not thinking the right thoughts. She said that she understood that it may sound strange but nevertheless it is in fact what she believes. Indeed! I asked her why she believes that Jesus was actually resurrected from the dead and her reply was “faith.” I explained why that was not a good reason to justify any belief. The girl was visibly a bit frustrated and clearly did not really know how to handle even simple questions like those. She was unpracticed, which probably explains why she needed the pamphlet. The boy, oddly, remained silent the entire time.

Well, I plan on sitting at that same table again next Tuesday for sure!

I am, however, a bit taken aback by how active and mobilized Christian students on my college campus actually are. Why aren’t atheists walking around and “talking” to students? That admittedly may sound a bit strange, but at the same time I feel that, on my campus at least, there is decidedly not a large enough free thought, skeptical, or atheist presence and we are not doing enough to engage with the student body. While myself and a friend of mine do try and engage Christians and preachers on campus when we can (and we have even hosted a debate), it certainly does not feel like enough.

Are you currently in college? What are atheists doing on your campus to engage with the student community and counter the Christian presence? I am really curious to know.

Related posts:

1. Pamphlets for Atheism?
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My friend and a few others in the crowd tried to challenge them on a number of points, but they were experts at talking fast and diverting questions. My friend challenged him to explain why he rejects the Qur’an as the inspired word of God in favor of the Bible, even though both claim and are both claimed to be inspired. He said, in effect, that the Qur’an advocates killing non-Muslims, so it cannot come from the One True Benevolent God. Of course, when God in the Old Testament sanctioned the killing of entire nations of people, let alone drowning most of the world in a global flood Himself, these were OK. Why? Because death is just a period of sleep until the final judgment and resurrection.

The next tactic that my friend attempted was to challenge the preacher to produce a sign of God’s existence. For example, Mark 16:17-18 says, “And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.” So my friend asked the preacher if he would drink a ‘deadly thing,’ like say, Chlorox. The preacher essentially agreed with the scripture- drinking poison, he claimed, would not actually hurt him! Of course, he wouldn’t actually do it. To do it intentionally would be to test God, in which case it wouldn’t work. In fact, asking for any sign would be a test of faith so God won’t do it (see also John 14:14, “If in my name you ask me^* for anything, I will do it”). How convenient! The Creator of the Universe will not show a convincing sigh of His existence because, apparently, it is preferable to believe without sufficient evidence.

Overall, it was more fire and brimstone than I had ever seen before and was an especially interesting contrast to the “God is love, God loves you” speeches that I usually hear on campus. In fact, a Christian came up to me and told me that he was embarrassed to see other Christians acting in that manner. I asked this person, an undergraduate student, whether or not he believed that a good person who happened to be an atheist deserves eternal hell for not believing in God or a miracle that purportedly happened 2,000 years ago. He hesitantly agreed, but added that he was not 100% sure what God’s criteria are for sending people to heaven or hell. This seemed unsettling to him, as it should be. After all, if our eternal lives depend on meeting a certain criteria shouldn’t that criteria be made explicit by God?

As they were leaving, one of the preachers came up to me and I asked him why I should believe that the Bible in his hand is the divine word of God. This wasn’t really what he wanted to talk about, however. He offered some unusual remarks, including that the Jewish historian Josephus and the 3rd century Church historian Eusebius both testified to Jesus’ resurrection. Then he asked me if I have ever told a lie. Of course, I said. He told me that by lying I was transgressing God’s law and would burn in hell for an eternity. I tried to explain to him that I was not perfect but considered myself to be a decent person. Unfortunately, this person was more interested in mindlessly preaching to me the same canned statements and verses rather than having an actual conversation. At one point he actually claimed that he was morally perfect now that he had found the gospel. It was frustrating and unfortunate.

I agree with my friend’s conclusion: as impossible as it was to try and debate with these people, it nevertheless benefited at least some of the people standing by in the crowd who were listening in.

Have you had any interesting experiences with street preachers? Christians in public places trying to convert you? If yes, I am interested in hearing about it.

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